[NEohioPAL]Pay vs.No Pay debate.....
JoeyLoc99 at aol.com
JoeyLoc99 at aol.com
Thu Mar 24 16:43:11 PST 2005
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From: JoeyLoc99 at aol.com
Full-name: JoeyLoc99
Message-ID: <105.5d7409f6.2f74b6ae at aol.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:34:54 EST
Subject: Re: Pay vs.No Pay debate.....
To: FSternfeld at aol.com
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Fred, can you please post this for everyone to read? Thanks.
Hello all,
My name is Joe and I am probably one of the reasons this Pay vs. No Pay
debate took place. Please let me explain myself for further understanding,
because I feel that some of what started out as conversations between myself and
Jean Zarzour has turned into something completely different, at least this is
what I am getting from all the emails that have been taking up my mailbox
space and my personal time to read. I will be including the original email
asking for talent as well as my emails to and from Jean so that some questions or
concerns may be discussed, as well as my thoughts regarding the emails.
Please excuse any redundancy due to my absence from the Pay vs. No Pay meeting.
Here is what transpired:
First came the email asking for talent:
Attention Local Actors Desiring Television Exposure!
I am in need of a few local actors to appear in a television commercial as
customers at a car dealership. I apologize for the short notice, but this
shoot will take place this coming Monday - Feb. 21st in Parma from 10am - 1pm.
I'm looking for the following: Male & female talent in age range of 25 - 55.
Also couples would be readily accepted, as would small children shopping
with parents. This opportunity cannot be financially compensated, but a VHS
of your work will be supplied after editing.
Since timing is so critical, your information & photo (if available) can
be sent to me at _person'semail at blah.com_ (mailto:person'semail at blah.com) * as
soon as possible. I will be choosing talent & notifying you tomorrow
afternoon - Friday Feb. 18th. Thanks & I look forward to working with you!
Person's Name*
(* Person's name and email address is irrelevant to the points being made so
I deleted them.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
My thoughts and reasons for responding to the email:
I responded to this email for a few reasons... I was in a Chuck-E-Cheese
commercial with Ted Knight at Southgate USA when I was 7, I am a local club DJ,
I used to host an internet radio show based from Cleveland, I was on my award
winning high school television show at Maple Heights High School, I along
with my girlfriend have always been interested in being an actor, and mostly
because my girlfriend had just had our first child on February 3rd, we were
both home with the baby doing nothing, so I was interested and responded.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Next came Jean's email to NeoPAL:
Dear NEOhio artists- Please contact me, Jean Zarzour, if you are one of
the talent interested in following up on this notice. I'd be more than happy
to advise you about what you can, should and have every right to charge a
production company for your participation in commercials........UNION or NON
UNION.
Respectfully-
Jean Zarzour
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Next came my email to Jean:
Jean,
My name is Joe, and I along with my girlfriend and my child, were in the
commercial shoot today. Please respond to me because I am very interested to
hear your opinion. It is widely known that extras, without speaking parts, do
not get paid, regardless of what media. I am curious to know the etiquette
when asking for compensation without risking participation in the commercial
as well as the average compensation that may or may not be deserved. Thank
you, in advance, for your time and for your response. I look forward to
hearing what you have to say.
Sincerely,
Joe
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Next came Jean's response to my email to her:
Hi Joe- Thanks for your email. It's too bad you didn't contact me before
you decided to do the shoot, because the fact is that extras DO get paid, and
as a matter of fact there is an Extra's Union to protect the millions of
people who do that work all over the country every year. I have attached a rate
sheet for commercials produced in this region of the country. You will see
the rates for extras at the bottom half of the first page.
For more information got to aftra.org or sag.org. Also look for a NEOhioPal
email regarding a town hall meeting for all area artists called:
PAY vs NO PAY A Discussion of Your Worth- FREE TO ALL. I plan to have the
meeting at a theatre on March 21 at about 7pm.
All the best to you, but stop giving away your services. You have a right to
be paid whether you are an extra or a principal.
Jean Zarzour
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Next came my response to Jean's reply:
Jean,
I appreciate your reply, but you did not respond to my inquisition about how
an extra asks for deserved pay without getting taken off the shoot. My
family was not the only extras used during the shots that will be shown during
the talk-over. It could have happened that I walk-in there and say to
"PRODUCER*" from "COMPANY*": "How much will you be paying my family for our
participation today?" She probably would have responded: "I have enough talent Joe
that is not being paid that we no longer need you, so please vacate the
premises." The point being, without getting thrown off the shoot, how do you ask
for the pay that may or may not be deserved? Also, how can a television
station(s) here in Cleveland, both "COMPANY*", owned by BLAH Productions*, get away
legally by not paying for the talent, if you say that talent DOES get paid?
If there are unions to protect the rights of actors, both extras and
principals, why were they not there picketting, or why was a lawyer for these unions
not present to make sure that this type of situation does not happen? Do
you understand what I mean? If people will do it for free and there is nobody
there to make sure the shoot is done legally and by the books, well I guess
the coulda-woulda-shoulda saying applies. As long as people will give away
services for free, and I do not truly include myself and my family with that
generalization because I would have been more than willing to get paid for our
services, how can the market ensure that professional organizations such as
BLAH Productions* pay their talent? I know that if I would have asked for
deserving pay, we would not have been included. Well, now I must ask as a
follow-up. If my family and myself do not ever get in a commercial as extras or
even principals, because we ask for pay and the production company refuses to
pay for any talent, how will we ever be in any commercial or get any exposure
to be in commercials from this day? It seems to me that there are a bunch of
loopholes in the get paid vs. not paid theory. Unions are created to ensure
that people get paid but nobody from the union was at the shoot claiming
that BLAH Productions* was doing anything illegal. If it's not illegal to not
pay your talent, then why are these unions claiming that they were created to
ensure that talent gets paid? It is a never-ending ring of arguments and
unfortunately while nothing is actually being done to ensure talent gets paid,
the shoots are being done and people are offering their service for free to
get the exposure that they may not have ever gotten. Please know that I am not
attacking you or the unions or even condoning the fact that this type of
situation happens, but what I am merely saying is that if it's not illegal, and
the unions do nothing to actually ensure that talent gets paid, other than
saying that is what their union stands for, then it is more than obvious that
this type of shoot will always happen with no consequences. I would also like
to mention that I used to be the afternoon on-air talent for a cleveland
based internet radio station and I can assure you that just because you do get
paid to do a job, that doesn't mean that you still won't get ripped off and
not get paid what is definitely deserved, so I am definitely on the side of
talent getting paid what is deserved. I am also not an expert on acting or
anything close, but I guess I just have opinions based on past experiences. With
that said, thanks for taking the time to respond to me and I truly do
appreciate it. As a wanna-be actor or even just on-air talent, I can say that I
will probably pursue the route of going through an agency in the future to
ensure that my family and myself gets paid for services. Maybe that is the only
way to ensure that happens, but even then, a percentage of what is paid will
go to the agency, and I once again would net get what I truly deserve, but
that is an entirely different argument. Take care and I can't wait to hear
your opinions. Have a great day!!!!!
Peace & Love,
Joey
(* Person's name and company is irrelevant to the points being made so I
deleted them.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
I cannot find Jean's reply to my email but this is what I remember:
Jean responded to my questions about this company doing something illegal by
not paying the talent and I am summarizing her response but it went
something close to this: This company is a non-union company and they are not
regulated or required by law to pay the talent they use, therefore it is NOT
ILLEGAL, but unethical. So in conclusion, as long as nothing illegal is being done
by the companies by not paying the talent, as long as there are non-union
companies not required by law or unions to pay the talent, as well as people
willing to perform as talent without asking or getting paid, along with the
unions, lawyers or agents not being present at each shoot to ensure that the
talent does get paid, it seems to be a never-ending ring of arguments that doesn't
seem to have a solution. People do work for free, comapnies are not
required by law to pay help, yet people still complain that this type of action
still goes on. Seems simple to me... make it mandatory for any company
performing a shoot to have to be in a union and make it illegal for this not to
happen and punnish each company similar to how the FCC punnishes broadcasters for
indencency. Well, considering that I conversing with Jean sparked this
debate, and seeing as how I missed the meeting (Sorry to say, prior commitment),
and after reading the many many heated emails... sensed that the discussion
became a bit more than HOW CAN I ASK FOR PAY WITHOUT GETTING THROWN OFF THE
SHOOT? Hope that I did not bore or offended anyone, as that was not my
intention for this response. I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
Joe
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<DIV>Fred, can you please post this for everyone to read? Thanks.</DIV=
>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hello all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My name is Joe and I am probably one of the reasons this Pay vs. No Pay=
=20
debate took place. Please let me explain myself for further understand=
ing,=20
because I feel that some of what started out as conversations between myself=
and=20
Jean Zarzour has turned into something completely different, at least this i=
s=20
what I am getting from all the emails that have been taking up my mailbox sp=
ace=20
and my personal time to read. I will be including the original email=20
asking for talent as well as my emails to and from Jean so that some questio=
ns=20
or concerns may be discussed, as well as my thoughts regarding the emails.&n=
bsp;=20
Please excuse any redundancy due to my absence from the Pay vs. No Pay=20
meeting. Here is what transpired:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff">First came the email asking f=
or=20
talent:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></STRONG></SPAN></SPAN></STRO=
NG></SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#004080 size=3D3><SPAN class=3D237573516-17022005>Atten=
tion Local=20
Actors Desiring Television Exposure!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#004080 size=3D1><SPAN=20
class=3D237573516-17022005>I am in need of a few local actors to appear in a=
=20
television commercial as customers at a car dealership. I apologize fo=
r=20
the short notice, but this shoot will take place this coming Monday - Feb. 2=
1st=20
in Parma from 10am - 1pm. I'm looking for the following: Male &a=
mp;=20
female talent in age range of 25 - 55. Also couples would be rea=
dily=20
accepted, as would small children shopping with parents. This opportun=
ity=20
cannot be financially compensated, but a VHS of your work will be supplied a=
fter=20
editing.<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D237573516-17022005><FONT color=3D#004080 size=3D1>Since timing is so=
=20
critical, your information & photo (if available) can=20
be sent to me at </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:person'semail at blah.com">=
<FONT=20
color=3D#004080 size=3D1>person'semail at blah.com</FONT></A><FONT color=3D#004=
080=20
size=3D1>* as soon as possible. I will be choosing talent & notify=
ing=20
you tomorrow afternoon - Friday Feb. 18th. Thanks & I look forward=
to=20
working with you!</FONT></SPAN></FONT></STRONG><SPAN=20
class=3D237573516-17022005></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#ff0000><FONT size=3D1><STRONG><FO=
NT=20
color=3D#004080>Person's Name*</FONT> </STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT color=3D#004080 size=3D1><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> =
</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT color=3D#004080 size=3D1><STRONG>(* Person's name and e=
mail=20
address is irrelevant to the points being made so I deleted=20
them.)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG>----------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------</STRONG></SPAN></STR=
ONG></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00=
ffff">My=20
thoughts and reasons for responding to the=20
email:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff"></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> =
;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><EM>I responded to this email for a=20=
few=20
reasons... I was in a Chuck-E-Cheese commercial with Ted Knight at Southgate=
USA=20
when I was 7, I am a local club DJ, I used to host an internet radio show ba=
sed=20
from Cleveland, I was on my award winning high school television show at Map=
le=20
Heights High School, I along with my girlfriend have always been interested=20=
in=20
being an actor, and mostly because my girlfriend had just had our first=
=20
child on February 3rd, we were both home with the baby doing nothing, so I w=
as=20
interested and responded.</EM></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG>----------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------</STRONG></SPAN></STR=
ONG></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></SPAN>=20
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff">Next came Jean's email to=20
NeoPAL:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff"></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> =
;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1><STRONG>Dear NEOhio artists- Pl=
ease=20
contact me, Jean Zarzour, if you are one of the talent interested in followi=
ng=20
up on this notice. I'd be more than happy to advise you about what you=
=20
can, should and have every right to charge a production company for you=
r=20
participation in commercials........UNION or NON UNION.</STRONG></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1><STRONG>Respectfully-</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG>Jean Zarzour</STRONG></FONT><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><BR><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG>----------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------<BR></STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff">Next came my email to=20
Jean:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><=
/DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff"></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><BR><=
FONT=20
size=3D1><STRONG>Jean,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG>My name is Joe, and I along with my girlfriend a=
nd my=20
child, were in the commercial shoot today. Please respond to me becaus=
e I=20
am very interested to hear your opinion. It is widely known that extra=
s,=20
without speaking parts, do not get paid, regardless of what media. I a=
m=20
curious to know the etiquette when asking for compensation without risking=20
participation in the commercial as well as the average compensation that may=
or=20
may not be deserved. Thank you, in advance, for your time and for=
=20
your response. I look forward to hearing what you have to=20
say.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG>Sincerely,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG>Joe</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG>----------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------</STRONG></SPAN></SPA=
N></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff">Next came Jean's response to m=
y=20
email to her:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff"></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> =
;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D1>Hi Joe- Thanks for your email. It's too ba=
d you=20
didn't contact me before you decided to do the shoot, because the fact is th=
at=20
extras DO get paid, and as a matter of fact there is an Extra's Union to pro=
tect=20
the millions of people who do that work all over the country every year.&nbs=
p; I=20
have attached a rate sheet for commercials produced in this region of the=20
country. You will see the rates for extras at the bottom half of the f=
irst=20
page.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D1>For more information got to aftra.org or=20
sag.org. Also look for a NEOhioPal email regarding a town hall meeting=
for=20
all area artists called:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D1> <FONT color=3D#ff0000><FONT color=3D#00000=
0>PAY vs=20
NO PAY A Discussion of Your Worth-</FONT> FREE TO ALL. </FONT>I plan t=
o=20
have the meeting at a theatre on March 21 at about 7pm.</FONT></STRONG></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D1>All the best to you, but stop giving away your=20
services. You have a right to be paid whether you are an extra or a=20
principal.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT siz=
e=3D1>Jean=20
Zarzour<BR><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG>----------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------<BR></STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff">Next came my response to Jean'=
s=20
reply:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>=
</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
size=3D1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
size=3D1><STRONG>Jean,</STRONG></FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG>I appreciate your reply, but you did not respond=
to my=20
inquisition about how an extra asks for deserved pay without getting taken o=
ff=20
the shoot. My family was not the only extras used during the shots tha=
t=20
will be shown during the talk-over. It could have happened that I walk=
-in=20
there and say to "PRODUCER*" from "COMPANY*": "How much will you be pay=
ing=20
my family for our participation today?" She probably would have respon=
ded:=20
"I have enough talent Joe that is not being paid that we no longer need you,=
so=20
please vacate the premises." The point being, without getting thrown o=
ff=20
the shoot, how do you ask for the pay that may or may not be deserved? =
=20
Also, how can a television station(s) here in Cleveland, both "COMPANY*", ow=
ned=20
by BLAH Productions*, get away legally by not paying for the talent, if you=20=
say=20
that talent DOES get paid? If there are unions to protect the rights o=
f=20
actors, both extras and principals, why were they not there picketting, or w=
hy=20
was a lawyer for these unions not present to make sure that this type of=20
situation does not happen? Do you understand what I mean? If peo=
ple=20
will do it for free and there is nobody there to make sure the shoot is done=
=20
legally and by the books, well I guess the coulda-woulda-shoulda saying=20
applies. As long as people will give away services for free, and I do n=
ot=20
truly include myself and my family with that generalization because I would=20=
have=20
been more than willing to get paid for our services, how can the market=
=20
ensure that professional organizations such as BLAH Productions* pay their=20
talent? I know that if I would have asked for deserving pay, we would=20=
not=20
have been included. Well, now I must ask as a follow-up. If my=20
family and myself do not ever get in a commercial as extras or even principa=
ls,=20
because we ask for pay and the production company refuses to pay for any tal=
ent,=20
how will we ever be in any commercial or get any exposure to be in commercia=
ls=20
from this day? It seems to me that there are a bunch of loopholes in t=
he=20
get paid vs. not paid theory. Unions are created to ensure that people=
get=20
paid but nobody from the union was at the shoot claiming that BLAH Productio=
ns*=20
was doing anything illegal. If it's not illegal to not pay your talent=
,=20
then why are these unions claiming that they were created to ensure that tal=
ent=20
gets paid? It is a never-ending ring of arguments and unfortunately wh=
ile=20
nothing is actually being done to ensure talent gets paid, the shoots are be=
ing=20
done and people are offering their service for free to get the exposure that=
=20
they may not have ever gotten. Please know that I am not attacking you=
or=20
the unions or even condoning the fact that this type of situation happens, b=
ut=20
what I am merely saying is that if it's not illegal, and the unions do nothi=
ng=20
to actually ensure that talent gets paid, other than saying that is what the=
ir=20
union stands for, then it is more than obvious that this type of shoot will=20
always happen with no consequences. I would also like to mention that=20=
I=20
used to be the afternoon on-air talent for a cleveland based internet radio=20
station and I can assure you that just because you do get paid to do a job,=20=
that=20
doesn't mean that you still won't get ripped off and not get paid what is=20
definitely deserved, so I am definitely on the side of talent getting paid w=
hat=20
is deserved. I am also not an expert on acting or anything close, but=20=
I=20
guess I just have opinions based on past experiences. With that said,=20
thanks for taking the time to respond to me and I truly do appreciate it.&nb=
sp;=20
As a wanna-be actor or even just on-air talent, I can say that I will probab=
ly=20
pursue the route of going through an agency in the future to ensure that my=20
family and myself gets paid for services. Maybe that is the only way t=
o=20
ensure that happens, but even then, a percentage of what is paid will go to=20=
the=20
agency, and I once again would net get what I truly deserve, but that is an=20
entirely different argument. Take care and I can't wait to hear your=20
opinions. Have a great day!!!!!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG>Peace & Love,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><STRONG>Joey</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D1></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D1>(* Person's name and company is irrelevant=20=
to the=20
points being made so I deleted them.)</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><STRONG>----------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------</STRONG></SPAN></SPA=
N></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00=
ffff">I=20
cannot find Jean's reply to my email but this is what I=20
remember:</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SP=
AN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #00ffff"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><=
/SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><EM>Jean responded to my questions a=
bout=20
this company doing something illegal by not paying the talent and I am=20
summarizing her response but it went something close to this: <STRONG>This=20
company is a non-union company and they are not regulated or required by law=
to=20
pay the talent they use, therefore it is NOT ILLEGAL, but unethical. </STRON=
G>So=20
in conclusion, as long as nothing illegal is being done by the companies by=20=
not=20
paying the talent, as long as there are non-union companies not required by=20=
law=20
or unions to pay the talent, as well as people willing to perform as talent=20
without asking or getting paid, along with the unions, lawyers or agents not=
=20
being present at each shoot to ensure that the talent does get paid, it=
=20
seems to be a never-ending ring of arguments that doesn't seem to have a=20
solution. People do work for free, comapnies are not required by law t=
o=20
pay help, yet people still complain that this type of action still goes=20
on. Seems simple to me... make it mandatory for any company=20
performing a shoot to have to be in a union and make it illegal for this not=
to=20
happen and punnish each company similar to how the FCC punnishes=20
broadcasters for indencency. Well, considering that I conversing with=20=
Jean=20
sparked this debate, and seeing as how I missed the meeting (Sorry to say, p=
rior=20
commitment), and after reading the many many heated emails... sensed that th=
e=20
discussion became a bit more than HOW CAN I ASK FOR PAY WITHOUT GETTING THRO=
WN=20
OFF THE SHOOT? Hope that I did not bore or offended anyone, as that wa=
s=20
not my intention for this response. I wish you all the=20
best.</EM></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S=
PAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><EM></EM></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN=
></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><EM>Sincerely,</EM></SPAN></SPAN></S=
PAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><EM>Joe</EM></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S=
PAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></S=
PAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SP=
AN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML=
>
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