[NEohioPAL] Copyrights (was: i want your VIDEOS)

Wed Jun 18 17:36:10 PDT 2008

I was just wondering ... How "legal" or "illegal" is it for actors to
photocopy sheet music and scripts for their use of scenework and auditions?

Craig Rosenthal

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Richard B. Ingraham <
rbingraham at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: neohiopal-bounces at listserve.com
> > [mailto:neohiopal-bounces at listserve.com] On Behalf Of Linda Ryan
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:30 AM
> > To: cvlt at cvlt.org; neohiopal at listserve.com
> > Subject: Re: [NEohioPAL] i want your VIDEOS
> >
> >
> > Andrew brings up a good point; one that's always bothered me:
> > the fact that many theaters have had to go the way CVLT has
> > -- i.e., no video for fear of being shut down. I don't know
> > who made the rule about no videos of shows, but I would think
> > the actors in this country would be "up in arms" (whatever
> > that phrase means) :-) about it.
> >
>
> Hmmmm....   Actually Actors Equity's rules are usually more complex than
> those by the rights holding organizations of the shows.  But I realize
> you're not specifically talking about professional actors.  However the
> rules established for professional organizations are often what becomes
> the "norm" and rights organizations are not going to worry about having
> numerous "rules" based on what "level" the organization is operating at.
> We are probably lucky that there are separate royalty rates based on
> whether you're a professional, educational or amateur organization.
>
>
>
> > I'm surprised, as rights-conscious as the American people are
> > - always standing up for what they believe in - that we've
> > allowed this policy to remain in place. Maybe there is a
> > fight going on about it somewhere and I just haven't heard
> > anything about it. But if not, there should be. I, for one,
> > would like to have saved the shows I've been in for watching
> > in my old age (okay, probably too late for that!) :-) but you
> > get my drift.
> >
>
> Rights conscious?   I would respectfully disagree.  :-)
>
> I think most folks pay almost no attention to copy right issues.  Why do
> things like file sharing software exist?  Mostly to share copyrighted
> content illegally.  Why is all my professional software that I use for
> my work have to have some arcane, complex "registration" method or have
> a small "dongle" that I plug into my computer to operate?  Because if it
> didn't the authors of the software would never be able to make a living.
> Everyone would just copy it freely and pay it no mind.
>
> I work with college students on a regular basis.  It's a real eye opener
> to see how much stuff is "shared".  And when you ask them about it, many
> simply don't even think about the fact that they are essentially
> stealing something and robbing the original author of their fair income.
> That attitude is changing slightly these days as we see the RIAA and
> other rights organizations going after folks for the more serious
> violations but there are also many who simply do not care.
>
> If you think this doesn't pertain to theatre copyrights then I'm sorry
> to tell you that it does.  I have watched as good friends (fellow
> designers) of mine were "ripped off" by producers and even large
> organization right here in town and beyond.  It happens even to folks
> like myself, a freelance designer...   I've had my sound designs "ripped
> off" on at least a couple of occasions.  (and that's the ones that I
> know about!)  Yes... right here in town!  I suspect that at least in one
> of these examples the organization simply didn't even pay it any mind.
> But if you're going to remount a show, using my Sound Design, then you
> should be paying me for the reuse of my design.  Of course the design
> fees are not high enough to even bother with legal action on my part,
> but that's a whole other subject.  :-)
>
> Of course I guess all that those examples prove is that it goes both
> ways.  The people that worry the most about protecting their "works",
> are sometimes the worst offenders and pay no attention to all the folks
> they might be ripping off.  And I include myself in that as well.
> Although I at least try to do the right thing.
>
> If you think that there is not a "fight" going on Ms. Ryan, then I would
> suggest that you have simply not been paying close enough attention.
> :-)
>
> There is all the RIAA lawsuits going on, where they are even going after
> minors and grandmothers.  Those are the "news" stories that you'll hear
> about in the major networks.  If you want the more mundane stuff, then
> you have to read trade magazines or hunt around on line.
>
> But a perfect example would be the recent lawsuit involving Carousel
> Diner Theatre.  The original director, choreographer (and I believe even
> the set, lighting and costume designers as well) of Urinetown sued a
> theatre in Chicago and Carousel for copying their staging.  (and I
> assume also their designs as well)  This caused a huge stir in the
> theatre community because it brings up the subject of how much staging,
> choreography and set, costume and lighting designs are "original" for
> each production and how much of it do you simply almost have to "copy"
> because otherwise it would not be the same show without it.  It's a very
> fine line and the line is kind of "blurry" if you think hard about it.
> Unfortunately I have not heard anything more about this lawsuit and
> don't know if there has been any outcome as of yet.  I'm mentioning this
> case merely as an example not to cast judgment on any of the parties.
> Since I've seen none of the productions involved I have no clue how
> realistic the claims in the lawsuit were.
>
> I think what you are proposing, that theatres should be free to make
> videos of their shows and then distribute them really isn't all that
> much different than some of the file sharing that is going on over the
> internet.  It's just on a MUCH, MUCH smaller scale.  While I can
> understand the argument for allowing that type of stuff (and I'm sure it
> goes on all the time anyway), it's one of those slippery slope type
> situations.  If I as a rights holder say, OK, this theatre can make
> copies and distribute them because they are a bunch of amateurs anyway
> and no one would pay any money for it, then it's not much of a stretch
> until anyone can bring in a camera and start recording any show they
> like whether they are part of the cast, crew or production in some way
> or not, and then start making copies for sale or just give them away.
>
> We as artists should want to protect our work and craft.  If I can just
> download the bootleg off the internet some place then what's the point
> of paying for a ticket to go see the real thing.  Yes, I understand you
> are not promoting that, but it would only be one small step to go from
> copies for the cast and crew to letting people post it around freely.
>
> As with most things it's a moving target and there are a lot of grey
> areas.  Lets be realistic, when it comes down to filing a lawsuit it
> will likely largely be decided by who has the better lawyers.  :-)
>
> What we as artist should really be doing is trying to get the copyright
> laws (and patent laws are even worse!) updated in this country so they
> actually make sense for the society and times in which we live.  Not the
> society of 150 years ago when most of them were probably established.
> But big organizations (ummm..  the Mouse!...  that would be Disney) keep
> getting our congress to extend copyrights and favor the big
> organizations.  Otherwise Mickey and friends would have been in the
> public domain years ago!  :-)
>
> Just some thoughts....  I could go on...  :-)
>
>
> Richard B. Ingraham
> RBI Computers and Audio
> http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/
>
>
>
> ______________________________________
> NEohioPAL is SELF-SERVE. If you need to unsubscribe, change from digest to
> one-at-a-time delivery or vice-versa, go on hiatus while out of town, switch
> from mime to plain text or vice-versa, etc. check out the FAQS at
> http://www.fredsternfeld.com.
> ______________________________________
> please consider a voluntary contribution to support Neohiopal -
> http://www.fredsternfeld.com/faqs.htm#support
> ______________________________________
> Disclaimer: The facts and/or opinions expressed in this message are solely
> those of the person in the 'from' or 'reply-to' header. The fact that this
> message is posted should in no way be taken as an endorsement by the
> administrator of this list. Subscribers should perform due diligence for all
> goods, services and activities promoted on NEohioPAL.
> _____________________________________
> NEohioPAL mailing list
> http://mailman.listserve.com/listmanager/listinfo/neohiopal
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.neohiopal.org/pipermail/neohiopal-neohiopal.org/attachments/20080618/0abdc2b9/attachment-0004.htm>