[NEohioPAL] "to review or not to review" REDUX - see the resultsand comments from the original poll of 2003
Kim
angelyogadiva at sbcglobal.net
Sat Jun 26 10:46:30 PDT 2010
thanks fred for your leadership ! on with the show!
Kim ATP ®Reiki Master
Herbalist
Angel Inspirations
Angelic Kreations
Kim's School of Dance
Yoga by Kim
The only angel rule is, you must ask!
www.yogabykim.com
www.misskimsschoolofdance.com
June 4 6-8 free one min angel readings benefit for the gathering place
June 17 Angels Among Us Parma Wellness Center
June 19 Reiki Level One North Royalton
June 27 Summer Fun Fair North Royalton
July 31 Angels Among Us St. Michael's Woodside
August 2 2010 Angels Among Us Brecksville Library
August 21 Reiki Level Two North Royalton
Sept 25 Angels Among Us Berea Community Ed
Nov 6 Yoga by Kim North Royalton Health Expo
www.magicbydavidw.com
Jinxed Costumes and Magic Saturdays 12-4
Michelle Star Healing Arts Grand Opening April 10
Parma Town Mall Pierogifest May 22 noon-2pm
Lorain Metroparks Family day Magic Show May 29 1pm
Solon Library June 9 7-8:30pm
Strongsville Library strolling magic june 5, 2010 2-4pm
Summer Fair Stage Show Jun 27
Mayfield Library Stage Show 7pm July 7
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Sternfeld
To: neohiopal at listserve.com
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:09 PM
Subject: [NEohioPAL] "to review or not to review" REDUX - see the resultsand comments from the original poll of 2003
Hi Everybody,
When Neohiopal was in its infancy in 2003, the issue of whether to allow reviews and opinions came up and I polled the subscriber base. Below is a reprint (I have removed the email addresses because many are obsolete) of that poll, the results, and comments from the subscribers.
AGAIN, THIS WAS ORIGINALLY SENT OUT TO NEOHIOPAL IN 2003.
Enjoy ...
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Yes (keep the reviews) -- 167
No (get rid of the reviews) -- 59
SO, REVIEWS OF ALL KINDS WILL STAY A PART OF THE NEohioPAL SCOPE.
The comments were varied and instructive and I have included many (with permission of the authors) at the end of this e-mail.
NEohioPAL Mission Statement:
The Northeast Ohio Performing Arts List exists: (in random order)
1) to promote cooperation & support within the performing arts community
2) to promote free discussion of our work by providing a forum for critical opinion and educational essays
3) to provide arts organizations and individual artists an easy way to promote their events thereby making the whole performing arts community immediately aware of opportunities.
Here are some "rules" that should help each of you remain satisfied with the content of NEohioPAL...
1) All reviews will be clearly marked with the word "review" in the subject line. That way those of you who don't want to read them can delete them without opening. I will continue to forward all of Roy Berko's reviews. If other professional critics (defined as someone hired by the media to review) decide to post to the list, those will be forwarded as well. If you are seeking reviews, you can easily access them on-line by going to these websites: The Plain Dealer -- www.cleveland.com, The Cleveland Scene -- www.clevescene.com, The Cleveland Free Times -- www.freetimes.com, The Cleveland Jewish News -- www.clevelandjewishnews.com. There may be others, but I am not aware of them.
2) All of Jeff Holland's "Ike and Mike" reviews will be prefaced in the subject line with: 'Mike & Ike satirical review of.....' That way those of you who don't want to read them can delete them without opening.
3) All personal reviews, editorials, commentary, etc. should be clearly marked as such in the subject line: A few examples.....
"My Opinion of....."
"Personal Review of...."
"Personal Opinion of..."
or something else that makes it clear that the content is solely the opinion of the writer. That way those of you who don't want to read them can delete them without opening. Up to this point, the posting of these kinds of messages has been minimal. If they increase significantly I will create a message board / forum that will be linked to my website to allow for ongoing discussion.
If you have any complaints about the content of a message, please reply to the poster.
The rest of this e-mail contains subscriber comments about the "to review or not to review" issue. I contacted each person to ask permission to post their comments. If they decided to post their comments they had the option of signing it with their name, e-mail address or 'anonymous.' If you don't want to read the personal opinions below, by all means close this message and delete it.
To those of you who participated in this poll, Thank You.
Warm Regards,
Fred Sternfeld
http://www.fredsternfeld.com
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Angry letters are the bane of any publication, including an
e-list. My advise is to ignore the angry letters, and keep posting the
reviews. Any censorship is evil-even if it's done with good
intentions.
I vote yes.-Tim Smith
Senior Designer/Webmaster
Cleveland Free Times
-- and --
Dobama Company Member
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Professionally: Let freedom of speech win out and include what is submitted
that is directly related to theatre. Your readers can press the delete key
as needed.
Personally: I am not thrilled about the personal reviews as stand alone
e-mails. I would prefer that if reviews were used (only by theatres
performing that show) that they be used in conjunction with the details
regarding the run, tickets, etc. If I want to read a review, I can pick up
a reputable paper and read the review of the professional critic on staff.
Sandra Emerick
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Yes - I have come to know which reviews I want to read and which not-the same as I know by the subject which messages I read and which I don't. Thanks for your work on this list, Fred-it is a great means of communication.
Laurel Hart
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I feel that this wonderful website should not be used for personal opinion. However, I do believe that professional critiques provide insights usable as a learning tool for actors and directors alike. Jeff Holland's parodies have nothing to offer; educationally or otherwise, and I for one would like to have 'ike and mike' discontinued. In allowing 'ike and mike' to continue could open a floodgate of chat-room repartee that is not appropriate to this particular website. Thank you for asking my opinion and for all the time and effort you put into this fine website.
Anonymous
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A resounding yes!
I am all for a nurturing enviornment, but this is show business!
Andrew May
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YES! Keep reviews in the list! I have no other way of reading some
reviews-like Roy Berko's-without subscribing to the publications he
is printed in. Plus, as a community, if someone feels really strongly
about a production-so much so that they want to share it with everyone
on this list-I want to know.
If people don't want to read them, don't!
Thanks for keeping up this service by the way. It's incredibly
informative!
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if it matters-
make a separate mailing list for those who wish to receive them. I for one would rather not have extra mail if I don't have to.
Anonymous
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Yes, and the people who send angry, unfair letters to Fred should be removed from the list.
Anonymous
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I personally enjoy the reviews, both informal and formal-I think I would draw the line at personal comments expressed as "letters" (which I have rarely seen here). And I feel that informal reviews should only be of a positive nature; more in the nature of a recommendation to the list to see a particular show.
I feel that it is of great benefit to see well-thought out descriptions of productions (in fact, I have written one:)-- I have found out about shows I wouldn't have known about other wise; and for the actors praised in such communiqués, it is a nice pat on the back!
Sincerely, Lissy Gulick
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Let everyone's opinion - negative or positive - be voiced. It's good to face the vitriol as well as the nectar.. I feel strongly about this.
Thomas Q. Fulton, Jr.
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I don't think they belong on the list. At best they're mildly irritating - when they come in floods from certain puffed-up theaters who will go unnamed, I feel it smacks of elitism and unnecessary bragging. We know where the reviews are - if we want to read them, we'll find them. Just my opinion.
Anonymous
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YES! Freedom of Speech should always win.
If someone starts spouting obvious filth, we might want to revisit, but anyone in the theatre should have a thick enough hide to withstand the occasional negative comment...
Cheers.
Wayne Turney
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I vote for the elimination of reviews and editorializing. I too
believe in the First Amendment. Indeed, I am a bit of
a fanatic about it. On the other hand I think what you
put together with the FredWeb is something special
that has a specific purpose. As you stated, if a
theatre organization wants to publicize something from
the paper...fine. But to get into a tit for tat...is
counterproductive to what I think you are trying to do
here.
Indeed, Actor's Summit's hubris was in allowing Tony
Brown to review a play that obviously was not ready to
be reviewed. That's why phones were invented, to call
the critic and say that 'we are not ready to be
reviewed!' Review it next week with a more jaundiced
eye, but do it next week when we are more prepared. I
recall Lucia and Licia had a show at Ensemble that was
trashed because of lines not being memorized. '
Perhaps you should start a web of public opinion
concerning the theatre and theatre productions.
Well, that's my two cents Fred. Thanks for the forum.
Martin Friedman, Ph.D.
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I DON'T think that personal opinions or reviews either + or -, by amateurs or pro's should be posted. If people want to share their reviews, they should send it to their personal email list, or to a message board that we all agree to access for NEOHIOPAL. As a matter of fact, wasn't one set up way back when? This is a terrific service. I access it for a variety of reasons, but NOT to hear what Joe Blow thinks about The production of Oklahoma at Chagrin Valley Little Theater or any other production/venue for that matter. It will become un-terrific if it becomes an on line "podium".
As long as you're asking, here are the listings that I look for as an entertainer and employer:
1. Audition/casting notices
2. Meeting notices; union or otherwise relating to the entertainment industry
3. Production dates
4. News i.e.: "_(your name here) , is appearing on The Soprano's Sunday at 9pm" or any unbiased "news" pertaining to anyone in any sector of entertainment
5. Workshop/class notices
6. Hirings, firings and other re-org's ie: "Andrew May is the new assistant artistic dir. at The CPH" or "James Bundy is leaving GLTF to work at Yale University"
But NOT what you or anyone else "thinks" about any of these subjects. There are newsletters, web sites and personal emails for that purpose.
That's what I think!
Thanks for asking.
Jean Zarzour
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Personally, I don't want to see reviews. Don't look at it as censorship so much as traffic control - we get tons of emails that are just notices about upcoming events and that is what this list should be used for - opportunities and event announcements - not reviews - let someone else start a "Review List" - you must be busy enough -
for what it's worth - and thanks for asking -
Anonymous
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I think if you post the reviews from the "professional reviewers", you have to post the personal reviews, as well. I feel that it is the right choice. I personally liked reading Hester's comments, and am happy to have another opinion other than Roy Berko's! I feel that an open discourse is not only appropriate for theatre, but the varying opinions are essential to theatre.
also, there is a little thing known as the "delete" button. If I choose not to read the Mike and Ike stuff, all I have to do is just push the "delete" and it goes away really easily.
how dare these people send you angry e-mails. if they don't like it, then let them leave your listing and set up their own system. I think you should just choose to "delete" their messages without reading them!
Sheila Maloney
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You know, all I wanted to do was something just a little different, ,maybe make some people laugh, and bring back some popular characters from my film criticism days. I'm sorry if I've caused you any undue weariness. That was not my intention.
I'm gonna get one more review in before the High Sheriff's (To use Joe Bob Briggs' term) vote to send me to Siberia. It's going to be for "The Robber Bridegroom" a show at the University of Akron that I am in that opens this week. What's funny is most of the cast and the director are on the list and they can't wait for it. lol
Anyway, before the axe does fall, I just wanted to say again that I really appreciate you letting me do these. A lot of my "fans" have subscribed to my list that I'm building, so at least when it comes down I have another, albeit smaller outlet.
And, on the off chance that the intelligent people win (I'm sorry, but this entire debate is stupid. However, we must listen to the masses) I will happily continue to piss off more people and make even more laugh.
Sorry about the length of this. Guess these are my comments to your question. I'm not going to vote either way, since I'm part of the controversy.
Now, let's just see what happens.
I'll have the review of my show in hopefully tomorrow.
Jeff Holland (Mike and Ike)
P.S. my one bitter gripe about this whole mess: Jeez, you'd think theatre people would have a sense of humor. Oh, well. k, I'm done now.
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Reviewing the Reviewers:
In addition to my previous comments, I just want to say that I think the "Ike and Mike" reviews by Jeff Holland are terrific. They are witty, ingenious, and well-crafted, and provide a clean, fresh view of the role of performing arts in our lives.
Many of us have gone to colleges and been through theater arts programs that emphasized the involvement of the student in theater production, through acting, design, production work, etc. Few programs, however, ever emphasize the audience's role-it amazes me how film students will see prodigious numbers of movies and television programs in their classes, while theater students have to rely on their imaginations to visualize play texts in our history classes. We aren't taught to actually go to the theater and appreciate drama in our own programs, surprisingly enough.
What I like about Holland's reviews is that the characters in his little dramas (also a clever rhetorical effect) give the sense of having no intellectual baggage when they walk into the theater; they are there for the experience alone. And that's how they comment on it, with very few preconceptions. This is a distinctly American viewpoint on theater, and one that needs to be revived.
After reading Jeff's reviews, other reviews seem stiffly formal, formulaic, and consumer-oriented. The "Ike and Mike" reviews to me are a breath of fresh air, and I look forward to every one. Long live Ike and Mike!
· Jim Smith
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I vote YES. I read the reviews I'm interested in and delete the rest, unopened. We don't all get all of the papers or know where to look for the reviews on the web (or have the time, for that matter). But if it's not worth the hassle to you for all the negative mail you get, I understand. As it is, this is a great service to all of us.
Anonymous
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I am saddened that, in this post-911 era we now find ourselves in, you have
been put in this position. for god's sake people grow up. if you don't
want to read the review/opinion - hit the delete button and stop using Fred
as a dumping ground.
Evelyn Carr
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I favor including the reviews, but not the personal opinions, as this is
not a discussion list. Let listers discuss their opinions back channel.
And I would not tolerate angry letters, which are, after all, only personal
opinions. Again, if your policy is to include reviews, there's no point in
venting against you when you include something someone doesn't want.
And if you continue to get flack about the reviews, I'd favor your
discontinuing them altogether. You're providing a valuable service to the
artistic community, and there's no reason you should be abused for that
service.
Thank you for being there.
Carole Clement Mentor, Ohio USA
http://www.cadvision.com/sdempsey/clement.htm
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wow! That's a tough call. Since the whole "critic" thing is totally subjective anyway, maybe there needs to be an opt-in forum to present those. Perhaps a message board? I know it's more work for you if you choose that route, but maybe someone on the list would be willing to facilitate something like that?
Kathy Whitmore
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Hell yes! Keep it all in!
Andrew B. Narten
Producer, JazzTracks
WCPN / 90.3 FM
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First of all, I am always amazed at the number of people who, over the years, TELL you how to run this service. A friendly suggestion is fine, but how about remembering that this service is provided as a courtesy to all fellow performing artists, free of charge. HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I personally don't find a problem with any reviews that are public anyway(i.e- PD SCENE etc..). I suppose if something is REALLY out of line and not public, you reserve the right to not post it on NEOpal lists.
Critics all have their own opinions. Some have professionalism handle all shows with a graceful tact-whether or not is a positive or negative review. Others are crude and classless in their approach (which doesn't gain an ounce of respect in my book) I know many times I agree with them and just as many I DON'T. Critics are not the be all end all BUT reviews are a part of this business and unfortunately we have to deal with them. How about if we all get our OWN spine and decide for ourselves how we feel about productions. ITS OK NOT TO AGREE WITH THE CRITIC.
Anonymous
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YES. I think that reviews SHOULD be allowed in the newsletter. If people
feel that their shows have something to hide, they shouldn't be out there at
all. That's what performing is. I also wanted to say that the purpose of
this newsletter isn't to be warm and fuzzy and just give praise, but to give
critical commentary about the Cleveland arts environment. There are
discussions about all different aspects of theater, good and bad, and if
honest reviews are not deemed appropriate for this venue, then I am not sure
I want to be a part of this group. I will go to the newspapers and free
times to get HONEST reviews, and come to this e-mail string if my ego is
down and I only want powder puff praise.
I praise you for allowing these reviews on your list, however I understand
if you are forced to remove them. Sometimes you just have to pick your
battles.
Anonymous
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Yes, freedom of speech....yes, yes, yes. Isn't that what art is all about?
Deanna
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In the spirit of positivity and simple basic grace towards one's fellow
artist (something often sadly lacking in the world today) I vote for no
personal opinions or negative reviews. Criticism is essential to art, but
the context of the criticism is also important for the art to flourish. I'm
not convinced that the opinion of the general subscriber to this list can be
defined as constructive criticism.
As to the "free speech" issue. If one is passionately interested in having
her opinion made public, it is quite easy these days to create one's own
public forum with a web-page.
Thanks for asking....
Becca Fishel Bright
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NO.
My opinion is that you're very generous and kind to have organized this mailing list and YOU DO NOT NEED ANY ADDITIONAL GRIEF from those who disagree with someone else's opinion that has shown up on the list. This list is NOT a chat room. If it was, I wouldn't be a member of it. Frankly, I don't read most of what comes thru on the list UNLESS I AM SPECIFICALLY INTERESTED based on the subject matter. I don't have time to read everything and I will continue to do so whether reviews/peoples' opinions are on the list or not. If people are disturbed by others' opinions, they should not read them. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to give it your attention. Therefore, my NO response to your question is based on the fact that you, as list moderator, need not have the added burden of supervising children playing during recess. It gets messy.
Ksenia
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YES-I agree that all reviews and opinions should be expressed. Tell the complainers to go get a life! Don't they know how to hit the delete button if they don't want to read something. It's your website!
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no, reviews & personal opinions should not be part of neohiopal. the link thing is okay (the way you do it, i.e. for reviews go to....etc.)
thanks
Anonymous
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Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion - you have the choice not to read
them if you don't care to. Let them submit the reviews for those who would
like to hear other opinions. (Thanks for asking!)
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YES - Keep all reviews and opinions in. I enjoy reading differing opinions.
It gives the reader an unbiased review of the show(s) in question. I have
read so many great reviews about shows that were not worth the time or
money, so if at least one other person offers another perspective it would
be appreciated. I know the atmosphere is "supportive" but there are so many
great shows that never get coverage - and if all we read are good reviews of
bad shows, it makes the unrecognized casts feel worse. I would like to see
more reviews altogether.
Thank You,
Larry Braun
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I would continue to send what you have been sending
for personal opinions, maybe that literally could be put in the heading so someone can delete it if they don't want to read it, I don't feel that personal opinions need to be sent but if it is in the heading then I can delete it
but any type of reviewer or consistent reviewer should be sent with detail in the heading so people have the choice of reading it or not
but folks have always had the option of deleting what they don't want to read
it would be the same if someone read a review or article in a newspaper, if the author offended you, then you just wouldn't read his review or column again
and yes, it is free speech
sincere in support
Anonymous
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Because I was at work when I responded, I didn't take the time to address another matter, but I'd like to now. Clearly, myself and several other people felt strongly enough about this issue to contact you, and I really didn't appreciate that we were mocked in Jeff Holland's review for "Saturday Night." I'm specifically speaking of his comment "That ought to be good for another couple of angry letters." (Mine, for one, certainly wasn't "angry.")
I'm sorry to see you allowing the list to be used in this way, and that's why I think that limiting "reviews" and other personal opinions, and focusing on the dissemination of valuable arts information (which I believe has always been your intention), would be the best solution here.
Anonymous
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I think FREEDOM OF SPEECH should be exercised on "THE LIST" and to prove it so...I have met over 35 people thanks to a listing I put on re: JOINING SAG and putting in my 5 cents in re: SCAM AGENCIES!
In no way were those email "OPINION" based and in fact, they were pasted from SAG.com and a letter sent to me by my attorney.
Another writer, Bobby, posted FACTS re: agencies in his email that helped EVEN ME understand the EIC code of ethics rules re: agent operations.
I think what is happening is that the guilty parties are feeling a little uncomfortable with the TRUTH.
I am all for "POSITIVE" listing or information that PRODUCES positive results. Thanks to my listings, I have helped over 35 people understand SAG better and now they actually visit my site to share positive information with me.
Thank you.
Mitch Berlingeri
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Isn't allowing only positive reviews a little one sided?...even if they are used by each organization to promote their show. Art is, by it's nature, controversial; and as an Arts forum, this list has the obligation to air both sides. We, as artists, are aware that each review is only one person's OPINION...whether it is good or bad. Personally, "dueling reviews" always make me more curious to see the production.
I say, let 'em all in! Not every show is a winner...if we don't experience some not so good shows, how will we recognize the truly wonderful ones?
Lenne Snively
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My vote is to keep reviews and personal opinions; I don't mind a bit and read the "Ike & Mike" column, especially if I've seen the show. Thanks, Fred!
Pamela Sago
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Interesting that you ask the question since I was wondering about that myself. I noticed the list gets a little out of hand. My initial thought was not to publish, but if you're going to publish the positive reviews, then all the rest should be allowed as well. That's part of theater. People upset with them should realize that. By performing you put yourself out there and have to realize some people may not like what they see. What I find particularly annoying is posts or comments that mention other reviews as if the person was incorrect in their opinion. It's an opinion. Anyway, I guess I'd let them run. What you may want to do, to cut down on the clutter, is put a limit on the number of posts about a particular show or topic. It seems some folks put announcements up when someone sneezes and it just seems a bit much. The current topic fits with this since one of the theaters involved always seems to post opening announcements, midrun announcements, closing announcements, reviews, letters in response to reviews, yada, yada, yada. Good people, good shows, but the clutter is a bit much and obscures messages from others. Anyway, that's just my opinion. And like a review, you can agree or disagree but I thank you for letting me put it out there.
Anonymous
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I think you should send out whatever is in the best interest of theater in
Cleveland....
And tell the people who complain about the reviews to learn how to scroll
past them. :)
Anonymous
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It seems to me that, since this is a free service you offer, and not a "club" or organization that requires membership or the payment of dues, you should be free to send out anything you want, within the guidelines of keeping people posted about events, etc. in the world of the arts. If people don't like what you're sending them, they are free to stop getting the e-mails at any time. I also feel that people in the arts who can't accept criticism, whether constructive or not, are in the wrong business.
Lori
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I believe that criticism, either good or bad, is part of the business-and therefore appropriate material for a theater-business mailing. The Indiwire (Independent film email list) includes reviews of films, why should you exclude it. Especially since your emails are always titled, if someone chooses, they do not need to read a review.
Thanks for asking,
Joe Ruffner
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I was in the cast of "The Hairy Ape" at CPT. While we got mostly great reviews from The Plain Dealer and The Free Times, Roy Berko had some things to say that, though largely negative, were helpful and thought provoking for me to read. As artists, we put ourselves out there knowing that we will at one time or another be subject to some form of critical analysis. I think it is refreshing to get this sort of feedback from colleagues (after all, who better to assess our work?), rather than some pretentious newspaper critic. You are right. This list is intended to be a means of collective support. It is for that reason that you should consider continuing to mail reviews. I say this because true constructive criticism is intended to help us grow, and if we are all REALLY here to support each other, that should be a primary goal. An idea for you might be to designate/allow as many as 2-6 "critics". The varying viewpoints could be very interesting. I enjoy Roy Berko's cut and dry critiques equally as much as I enjoy Jeff Holland's light-hearted dialogues. I may be just another idealist, but I really do think people are being too touchy. I think that we can only benefit from seeing the world from many different angles.
Sincerely,
Megan Elk
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Although I see several of those reviews listed in the Plain Dealer or elsewhere, having them listed helps those who don't subscribe to the papers. I suppose I would vote "yes" because I've enjoyed the contradictory viewpoints from those read in the newspapers and WHY they found the production positive, etc. If I'm not interested, a simple push of the delete button isn't much work!
Thank you for this wonderful service and the time you devote to it.
Anonymous
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yes. As a non performer (but a performer's parent) I have found myself attending more shows because of the legitimate reviews. This list has made me realize what a live theater environment we are in.
Maybe if you have people who submit reviews, put in the Subject: REVIEW: title, etc. that way you know it is just that.
Thank you!!! Shirley O'Connor
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Yes. It is, and should be, an open forum. The free exchange of ideas is what its about. Keep up the good work.
Noah Budin
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It's too bad that you are getting the angry letters. It's a shame that some people don't have a sense of humor. The 'Ike and Mike' reviews are really not meant to be reviews - they are just humorous banter about a show they have seen.
My vote is 'yes'. I say don't censor - freedom of speech should prevail.
Thanks for heading up this e-mail list. I've found it to be very valuable. I'm sure it can be somewhat time consuming on your part. I applaud your efforts!
Thanks,
Theresa Benyo
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LET FREEDOM RING!
If people don't want to read them then don't read them!
I don't like half the reviews I read or at least don't agree with them but it is the job of the reviewer to do just that review...for better or worse. We all know that 2 people can see the same show and come out with two incredibly different opinions! It happened twice within the past month, see "The Interview" and "Virginia Wolf" vis a vi Tony Brown and Roy Berko.
However it is not your job to censor. I complain about reviewers and reviews as much as anyone but in this case I believe the open forum serves a greater purpose.
Keep them in
Anonymous
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I think you should absolutely include reviews in your emails. you clearly
state in the subject line that it is in fact a review. if there a person or
persons who do not like to read the reviews, they can delete or bypass the
mail without ever opening it.
further, we are actors, actresses, singers, dancers, designers, etc. it is
our job, the job we have chosen to do to perform and display our craft for
an audience. it is the nature of the business to put ourselves in a
situation for spectator feedback. if people can't handle the negative
criticisms along with the positive, perhaps the should choose a different
field to work in.
thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts.
sincerely,
jenna messina
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Yes, by all means include reviews, I don't particularly find Ike and Mike humorous, or to my liking, but you know what? I can delete it!
Judy MacKeigan
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I've been a working actor in NYC for the past 7 years(Originally from NW Ohio) and I truly enjoy all the emails I receive regarding what's going on in the theatre world in Cleveland and Canton, etc...
I happened to read the "Mike & Ike" review of Carousel Dinner Theatre's "Phantom" and was quite amused. I believe, as artists, if we cannot laugh at ourselves and our craft that we take oh so seriously 99% of the time...then where are we?
There are plenty of folks out there that see plays and musicals alike, like "Phantom", and respond similarly to the way the "Ike and Mike" script responded. I think everyone has the right to express their opinion even if it is an unfavorable one in the industry. It's still the truth to a group of people. (however large or small.)
Most people didn't like the NY Times review of Frank Wildhorne's "Cival War"...but the truth of the matter is it was an enormous piece of commercial crap that made very little sense. I say...let's call a spade a spade. Even if my spade may be different than someone else's.
Sincerely,
Joe from NYC
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YES!
This is a great list service and recently, I have been
even M O R E impressed with the valuable information
listed regarding agencies and the scams that they may
or may not portray.
Let me also tell you this: I have been acting on stage
for quite some time. Maybe it's just pure laziness,
but I have never taken the time to fully understand
the rules of SAG.
Well, a listing from a member made things much clearer
for me. So much in fact, that I did some research and
they were right on!
So I thank them, as well as you. Why? For allowing
such postings, freedom of speech and most importantly:
a really terrific service to the acting community!
Carmen Marrero
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This is in response to the question regarding reviews and opinions being
posted on the NEohioPAL Lists. I am a strong advocate for freedom of
speech, and yet I can also see how some would rather not see them. In the
theatres I have worked in thus far, directors and producers request to their
cast that discussion of reviews not take place in the theatre, as not to
disrupt or offend any company member who does not care to see them. They
also tell the cast where the reviews will be posted, for those who wish to
read them. I believe that the NEohioPAL list is set up the same way. The
list of topics that precludes the actual information has been invaluable to
me. For those people who do not want to read those pieces that are reviews
or opinions of shows, I would suggest to them that they note where they are
in the group. Then simply bypass them, or depending on your e-mail setup,
don't open them. If anyone has a problem still, perhaps they should be
reminded that NEohioPAL is a free listing, and it's very rude to bitch and
moan about a free service. On that note, I would like to thank Fred
Sternfeld for this service, and the time he has spent in keeping it
together. In the three years I have been in Cleveland, the NEohioPAL list
has helped to integrate me into Cleveland Theatre and to make friendships
that I will cherish forever. Thank you, Fred.
Sincerely Yours,
Sabrina Gibbar
Producer, Dobama's Night Kitchen
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I say yes.
However, w/ regards to personal opinion "reviews," perhaps you should set up a rule that the personal opinion has to be written like a review or a letter to the editor, and people must be able to command the English language i.e. be well written (sorry, I'm really punchy this morning...)
I'm sorry these angry opinions are wearing you out...
I appreciate your willingness to continue posting positive reviews as pr. It really does help, especially the smaller budget theatres.
I hope you are well, and Fred, I continue to support what you are doing w/ this list.
Anonymous
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Just thought I'd throw my two cents in on this topic.
First, I'm sure you know you can never make everyone
happy. Let me suggest a compromise.
If there are folks who want to make reviews available
to the list members, perhaps they could post them to
an independent web page and provide that link to the
list. It would mean a bit more work for the reviewer
but all-text web pages are not too difficult or time
consuming. In that way, those of us who enjoy the
reviews (like me) can go read them and the others will
not be "bothered".
Second and finally, thanks for the list. I live in
Canton, so many of the gig notices are a bit out of my
way, but it is good to be kept up to date on the state
of the arts in all of NE Ohio instead of just my tiny
corner of it. Keep up the good work and don't let the
bastards get you down.
Deb Salberg
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No - For your sake, Fred, the simpler the better. I, too, believe in freedom of speech and opinion. However, sometimes you can get too many chiefs in the tent. If the list is kept to a non-biased display of audition info, classes, and shows, no one can be offended or complain to you. You put a ton of hard work into this list, and it shows. I am a novice actress trying to get some experience in this line of work. If it weren't for your list, I can honestly say I'm not sure I would have been able to learn so much about the acting community and its auditions in Cleveland. Keep up the great work!
Sincerely,
Amy Annico
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I sure don't want to make more work for you, but I do not like reviews
and personal opinions on neopal. Everyone thinks their own (or their
friends') show is the greatest. A link to a review allows the reader
decide if he wants to find out someone else's opinion.
Joe Kerata
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How awful for you that you do this wonderful e-mail list and not be shown
the gratitude what you are doing deserves! It is such a wonderful marketing
tool: quick, easy, and free, and reaches so many people. Anyway, here's
what I think since you asked for our votes. If I'm not interested in the
show, I don't read the review. Professional reviews such as Roy Berko's are
published and circulated anyway, so I don't see a problem with those such
reviews being distributed on this list. I enjoy reading the Mike & Ike
reviews because they are funny. I think it is questionable whether
non-professional reviews should be distributed - although they are usually
positive, which is great for the theatre to which they refer, we don't know
anything about the people sending the message, so we don't really know if we
can trust their opinions or not. I think what you have been doing in the
past is fine. That is my vote. Thanks again for doing this list - it is
great!
Anonymous
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great question. I would vote "NO." You said to me just last week how much the subscriber list has grown. The list of postings has obviously grown, too. The reviews and opinions clutter up the list that much more.
To be honest, I am less likely to spend time reading ANY postings when I have 15 or more on a given day. I just start deleting. I would love to see the list reduced to audition and performance notices only.
I mentioned I thought that the postings should be left to auditions and performances only. Let me expand upon that a bit to say that I think there are definitely some exceptions, a good example being the notice you put in for a dedication to Steve Sterlekar. News postings that affect the theatre community as a whole I feel are appropriate and could be left to your discretion as moderator.
Thanks,
Patrick Jansen
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Yes, I would agree that you have a bit of a problem here. All I know is
that your newsletter is terrific, a great asset to the theatre
community...and it has changed over the last month or two because people
are what?...using it for the wrong reasons? and/or using it like email, to
begin a dialogue. Clutter, I guess. The reviews don't bother me because at
least they shed light on where and when shows are happening. The personal
notices are irritating. The length of some notices is irritating. they go
on forever just pumping their action. But I don't know how you would
control all of this and I'm not sure you should try. It is your deal so I
suppose you could try to make any kind of restrictions that you wish. In
fact, here's an idea...go back into your mind when you began this
idea. What were your initial dreams and ambitions for the site? Is it
becoming something you don't like? Answer those questions and act upon them
as you see fit. If I had to vote I guess I would vote "No" reviews and
personal stuff doesn't bother me (even though the personal stuff
does.) Take care. Congrats on Saturday Night.
William F. Hoffman
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Yes, keep the reviews. As you said, this list is a supportive environment for the acting community, and reviews of any kind provide publicity for the shows they concern. And as we all know, there is really no such thing as bad publicity. Also, I feel that the sharing of personal opinions is more than appropriate for the list. Thank you for putting it to a vote.
Sincerely,
Jamie Hoffman
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I would say, Fred, that whether or not reviews
are appropriate depends on what you would define as being
the purpose of the list. If it's a discussion list, then reviews
are fine. If it's a general theatre interest list, then reviews are
fine.
If it's a sort of billboard for theatre productions and theatre
related products and services, which is how it's used most of the
time, then reviews are not within the scope of that. I
don't care if reviews are included, as long as they are not negative
towards a show I'm involved with -- I can provoke enough negative
feedback on my own.
Mike Sepesy
http://m.d.sep.home.att.net/
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I've got to tell you that I am in favor of continuing your practice of allowing reviews (any kind) to be sent on the list. People should be entitled to their opinions. I feel that if you don't care for what the person is saying...then don't read it. That's what the "delete button" is for. :)
Jack Herman, Founder-President
Tree City Players
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I enjoy reading them all. People have the all-American right to
exercise the delete key.
On the other hand, Fred, it's your list. If the headaches outweigh
the benefits for you, let somebody else start the "NEOPerforming Arts
Reviews, Opinions, Kvetches, and Random Noodlings" list. You're doing
a boatload of work to keep this afloat, so in my opinion, it's not even about
how people "vote". Do what you like.
- Linda Eisenstein,, www.lindaeisenstein.com
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ABSOLUTELY YES !!
If people don't like it, they can delete it. That is why the
computer Gods put that little key that says "del" on it
right on the right hand side of your keyboard. It comes
in very handy......P.S. Sorry to hear this issue is causing
you agita....it should be a no-brainer.
Anonymous
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I think as the keeper of the service, you should decide. Though I
also believe one can decide not to read reviews or opinions if they
bother them. And really what's wrong with extending the scope of
anything. Grow.
YES
Eric Johnson
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I am sending a definitive YES answer to your question.
Artists (of any medium), being that our work is of a subjective nature, leave themselves open to the subjective interpretations and opinions of anyone else participating in our craft. That includes viewers, sellers, buyers, fellow artists, critics, and the general public - in short, anyone. All artists know the pain of criticism against what they hold dear, and dedicate themselves to achieving. We spend our entire lives searching for our own truth, and find bits along the way that we try to share with others, only to be laughed at, rejected, scoffed at, dismissed, etc., etc., etc. IT GOES WITH THE TERRITORY. If you can't handle that, then art (in any form) is not for you.
Freedom of speech is disappearing everywhere today - the "mob" of public opinion influences everything to such a degree that even in the arts, decisions are geared towards what is "palatable" and "sellable" for the masses. Like when theaters do shows that have little artistic merit, but have huge box office grosses (do the two go hand in hand?). And I'm not just talking about the *movie* theaters.
Although I have not contributed much to this forum (not having played organizational roles in the theater yet), I have to say that if this forum is turned into a "touchy-feely" version of its former self that is toned down to pacify those who have neither the stomach or courage to pursue their artistic inclinations, then I'm not sure I will still subscribe.
Having said all that, I *do* appreciate the time and work that is put into this list, helping those of us in the area that want to pursue theater. It is a huge help.
Sincerely,
Craig Thompson
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe people have forgotten that you maintain this massive list free of charge to us, and that angry letters are not a kind way to treat someone who is giving us a gift for free. "yes" - personal reviews and opinions of each other's work should be allowed on a list of this type, with at least two ground rules in place:
1) All reviews should be written in a spirit of camaraderie and constructive comments. Several of the reviews posted have motivated me to see the shows, if for no other reason than to compare reactions.
2) All angry letters should be directed towards the person responsible for the objectionable material. If someone disagrees with Jeff or Roy's opinions, they should have the guts to duke it out with Jeff or Roy. You don't deserve to be dragged into it. To make you play "mommy" because someone got their feelings hurt is unfair to you and an act of cowardice on their part.
Thanks for the service!! It is greatly appreciated!!!
JT Buck
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like the words 'review' or 'personal opinion' or some other obvious marker in the subject - that way if I'm not interested I can just delete and not read.
As usual, thank you for all you do,
~ Rachel Madorsky
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OF COURSE keep the reviews going. YES, YEs, Yes!.
Free speech aside, it is good to hear another opinion. People who are
unwilling to hear a, perhaps, differing opinion wear the proverbial blinders
and can only see from their point of view. These are also the kind of
people that espouse, "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made
up." There is no growth for these people. While I usually disagree with
reviews, I will always -- ALWAYS -- want to read them.
Ron Spinelli
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES. As long as the person sending it in identifies themselves. Debate and criticism are essential parts of the arts. Anyone who can't handle a negative review (wherever it happens to be) probably should get out of theatre. and of course, no one has to read a review if they don't want to. I personally usually delete them. but if some want to post them and others read them, they should be allowed. Alex J Nine.
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Hi, Fred - I vote NO....
...mostly because I always breeze right past the Mike and Ike stuff
impatiently and just scan the reviews for familiar names. I think these
things are definitely post-worthy, but perhaps a separate list is the
solution.
I also think that it will be impossible to set any kind of guideline as to
what would be accepted for posting, once the forum is opened wide to reviews
and personal opinions. The selection/editing process is no longer arbitrary
and it's a can of worms that will land directly in your lap, I'm afraid. You've done a marvelous job
administering this list, but I don't think this will make your job easier in
ANY way. It's a headache you just don't need or deserve.
Anonymous
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We should not be so frail, that a negative review not be posted. BUT certainly we should take care to insure the negativity isn't being spread by persons not directly affected. (Some may be happy for another theatre/performers poor review.) Perhaps we should find message boards for these kinds of things..Or a chat room with designated times for people in the arts to opening discuss our "issues"(greater Cleveland),whatever they may be.
The general advertisements are OK and easy to delete. I would like to take this time to thank you for pulling this information together for the theater community...:-)
Anonymous
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion is that they should not be included in the everyday content of the list. Some of them are silly and take time from information theater people need and want. However, for those who want to read them perhaps there can be an e-mail address or some way they can be accessed. That way the integrity of the main list is kept intact but people can take a "detour" to read the various opinions and reviews.
Anonymous
------------------------------------------------------
If we as artists are not strong enough to face or deal with a valid opinion from another artist, or open ourselves to another viewpoint differing from our own, how could we possibly truly call ourselves artists? This difference of opinion and melting pot of thoughts and views is what all of art is based upon. If we cannot accept a view that does not hold true with our own, no matter how much we may personally fear it, then perhaps we are in the wrong field.
-Brian Bowers
-------------------------------------------------------
I think that those people who don't like the reviews - don't have to read them. It is very informative and interesting to me to read reviews and opinions that I don't have time to look up for myself - a negative comment, or constructive criticism, is not necessarily unsupportive. We get this Email so that we can stay informed with what it going on, and if there is something negative to be said, that keeps us informed too. I frankly wish that there were more reviews.
I am really amazed that people find the time to send angry Emails - if they don't like it, delete it and go do something else.
Anonymous
-------------------------------------------------------
First, I would like to say thank you for tending to this list serve, it
is rather impressive. I am new to the list serve (Chuck Fink and Noah
Budin told me about it). I graduated from KSU with a BA in theatre some
time ago, and have been working full time in the corporate world - but I
am hoping to become more involved in theatre.
Anyway - my vote is YES - I'm a "card carrying member" of the ACLU. I
believe that freedom of speech and personal expression is the paramount
right in a free and democratic society. This is a freedom that is
precarious indeed, and the arts have always been threatened by it
(Maplethorpe for example) and as a "torch bearer" of sorts, I owe it to
those around me to hear them out - even if I am adamantly opposed to
what they are saying.
Those are my two cents. Again, thanks so much for being the "keeper of
the list" as it were!
Anastasia Birosh
Cleveland Heights
-------------------------------------------------------
I vote to exclude from the list those that fall into the category of
personal opinion and continuing with those that are professional reviews,
published or republished. There are public forums out there for those who
wish to express their personal opinions.
Hang in there... this online controversy will at some point pass... leaving you ready for the next one! Your work is appreciated by this subscriber.
All the Best,
Steve FitzGerald
Lakewood Buzz founder
---------------------------------------------------------
absolutely - yes. reviews are an integral part of our business -positive or negative. Anyone who wants all theater news to be positive is in the wrong business.
f. mularo
---------------------------------------------------------
yes,
reviews and other comments should be allowed to be
posted on this list,
in a business such as this, we are constantly
subjected to criticism of all kinds, whether it be a
professional review or a parody all in fun.
actors need to learn to laugh at their own
performance, if they cant, are they not enjoying their
own profession?
Anonymous
----------------------------------------------------------
I vote yes. You've got to take the good with the bad. In this business we stick our collective necks out (a lot), so you've got to expect that heads will roll once in a while. We can take it. We're a strong bunch.
Janet Shank
Fine Arts Association Theatre Dept. Chair
----------------------------------------------------------
I agree that personal opinions are a waste of
space and a irritation on this format. That's what
chat rooms are for. I did appreciate the information
from aftra about bogus agencies, though. I also do not
like the posting of reviews. There are so many shows,
and so much to look at, it's just a little overkill.
If one is interested in reviews, one can read the
paper.
Anonymous
------------------------------------------------------------
Overall, yes, I appreciate personal reviews. I don't feel professional reviews have the end-all opinion. I always ask friends for an opinion of something they have seen. But I do feel the reviews on your service should contain the subject line: Personal Review: (Insert name of show), so we know in advance what it is.
On the other hand, my e-mail is becoming very clogged. I find I'm deleting more and more NEohioPAL e-mails without opening them.When I write e-mail announcements to be sent, I appreciate the huge audience that subscribes to your service. But, as the recipient, I often feel overwhelmed by the volume of e-mails.
I would prefer you limit the service in other ways. Rather than omitting personal reviews, I'd rather you omit, for example, high school shows, non-theatre musical events and other things that aren't purely theatre.
Anonymous
-----------------------------------------------------------
My belief is that the PAL listing is a service designed to provide relevant information to the community interested in the arts. It should serve as a central address to enable those on the list to easily retrieve information they deem relevant.
As long as the "Subject" information is clear, I see no reason why submisssions should be edited. This includes the juxtaposition of reviews by theatres, as well as individual responses to publicly generated reviews and comments by editorial writers in the local papers.
Tact and good sense would seem to be the measures by which PAL subscribers may determine whether they choose to read, or delete, submissions that are posted.
Sincerely,
Jeff Grover
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YES.
I fully support the posting and/or exchange of opinions within the framework
of the NEohioPAL service and appreciate the opportunity to see reviews and
opinions whether I agree with them or not (& I certainly have had ample
opportunity to be on both 'sides').
Free speech is a treasured freedom and I believe we should all be supportive
of it while realizing that reviews and opinions are "just that" and should
cut you a little slack in serving as the conduit...
Thanks very much.
All the best,
Jim McCormack
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I dislike negativity concerning community theater, the issue of freedom of speech is of more concern. Unfortunately if you do not pass stuff like that along, you could be open to a lawsuit or would have to shut the service off.
I usually delete anything that I do not like anyway which the other readers can do. If you get unfavorable mail, you should return it to the sender to advise to complain ti the source.
I do suggest that if there was something that you or your staff saw was objectionable and you felt that something need to be addressed, you still have the option of returning it to the author for reread it and give him the opportunity to revise or withdraw it before passing on to us. I know that I would seriously reread something that was returned to me before reapproving for mass distribution.
Bob Fadeley
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I certainly don't mind reviews. I suggest that if readers don't wish to read reviews, for them to take note of the subject header, which usually implies that the following message is a review. Then delete it.
For those posting reviews, you might request that they put the word "Review" in the subject line.
Cheers, Cat Kenney
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again I can't "THANK YOU" enough for helping me out so much with this helpful list.I feel that personal opinions and reviews should be allowed........Thanks for asking!
Have a great day,
Mark A. Mazzocco
PS: if you ever receive any critism of something I acted in, then delete it...just kidding.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
In answer to you inquiry, I do not feel that a person's personal opinions or reviews should be included. I try to see everything I can, theaterwise, and don't feel someone else's opinion, however well meaning, will influence me, one way or the other. Above and beyond all that, I don't have time to read the stuff that I'm supposed to, let alone the rest of it. So, since you asked....
Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, however, I don't like to get e-mails that give me a long list of
all the shows that a person's child is in (excluding Betsy Hogg's
mom-Broadway is a pretty big deal) If I wanna know I will call a parent
personally.
Reviews and critics are part of theatre. Some people hate criticism all
together and think "how dare they say something bad about our show or my
performance" Theatre is an art form. It evolves, has shape, and should
entice discussion and thought. Why do we do theatre if it doesn't cause
someone to be motivated or feel a certain emotion or cause change?
Perhaps there could be an on-line theatre forum created for Cleveland to
discuss art that is going on around us.
Anonymous
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, reviews and opinions should be allowed because it's all part of
theatre. Everyone has an opinion, positive or negative, and should be able
to share that with others they think can appreciate it. If some people on
the list don't want to read reviews or anything they fear might be negative,
they should skip those posts when reading the list. Personally, I've used
the reviews on the list which don't appear in my local papers to decide if a
show is worth seeing or not.
Thanks for putting it up to a vote.
Linda
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
Fred Sternfeld
http://www.fredsternfeld.com
216-360-0708-home
216-496-6087-cell
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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