[NEohioPAL] scoring person needed - Hunh?
Ryan Bergeron
ryanbergeron at msn.com
Wed Mar 9 13:02:39 PST 2011
This is a bit off the general topic...but I need to respond to Craig's statement that "You can't make a living in the arts here in Cleveland".
There are many people doing just that, by understanding the professional landscape of this town and strategizing exactly WHAT they need to do in order to make a living...perhaps learning new skills to be able to function in more than one capacity, etc. I made a respectable living in this town as a non-union artist for almost 10 years. It took no time at all to realize that even getting frequent performing gigs in WELL-PAYING theatres (Cleveland playhouse, the now-defunct and sorely missed Carousel Dinner Theatre, Cleveland Opera, etc) was not going to pay all of my bills. Rather than lament that, i developed other skill sets so I could function as an instructor, a musical director, a pit musician, etc. In ten years I supported myself and never had a job outside of the arts, and I have many friends and colleagues who still do the very same thing.
There are VERY few performers in this town making their living exclusively through performing. However, that having been said - there are very few performers in NYC making their living exclusively as performers!!! And there are just as many (if not, MORE!!!) theatres in NYC that offer the same rates of compensation as the small cleveland theatres (or None at all!!!). We are not NYC; or Chicago; or LA - for better or worse. Blaming the local landscape and insinuating that we're some sort of theatrical ghost-town is a little trite and adds nothing to the dialogue of WHAT TO DO about it. And quite frankly, if a person can't manage their skills into a marketable career here in Cleveland, they're not going to do it succesfully in a bigger town with more competition, either.
We could be reactive and blame the economy and the professional landscape of our town for allowing our work to have less value (thus in my opinion perpetuating the problem), or we could be proactive and set a standard. Evie really did hit the nail on the head - there was NO compensation offered in the initial post. An emerging artist certainly has the right to set their own standards in terms of what they are willing to accept as compensation for their work....by the same logic other artists have the right to call that out if they see it as de-valuing their work and lowering the bar for the local arts economy. Really folks, at the end of the day all you can do is set your own standards and live by 'em.
I also think it's a bit sad that the original poster "withdrew" his initial request by lamenting the lack of "community" in the responses he got. Community is based on dialogue - we all could learn from the discussion - especially if it involved a clarification of the original post - but i guess it's eaiser to take your ball and go home when your feelings get hurt.
Ok. I'm sick at home today and borderline delirious - and clearly have too much time on my hands. I'll shut up now. Best to all.
Ryan Bergeron
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:04:32 -0500
From: cmractor at gmail.com
To: bachtobroadway42 at sbcglobal.net
CC: neohiopal at neohiopal.org
Subject: Re: [NEohioPAL] scoring person needed - Hunh?
Welcome to Cleveland! How many theatres here offer one to a couple hundred dollars, or even 400 dollars for 6-8 weeks for the run of a show?
You can't make a living in the arts here in Cleveland. Sad, but true. Honestly, it is no one else's business other than that particular artist who makes that choice to donate their services to a cause that they personally feel is important enough to spend their time and their money on.
Yes, as a professional I would like to always be paid how much I feel I am worth. But let's face it ... it's Northeastern, Ohio. I am not AEA, SAG or AGMA ... or IATSE ... But then again, with all of those contracts together, what is the ratio of how much union work there is put together in this region compared to how many union actors/artists/etc we have locally?
I do believe that everyone should be paid what they are worth; but realistically... in any business, is anyone? Whatever happened to a professional wanting to be generous and do something because they love it?
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Evie Morris <bachtobroadway42 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Folks,
I do not usually get angry enough to publicly express my feelings.
However, reading that post last night after playing a 3 hour rehearsal pushed my tired, hurting fingers to respond.
I was being sarcastic, about using CD's and downloading music. Sorry to confuse the issue.
My initial reaction was to asking anyone who seriously composes music to donate their time and labor for someone else's project for nothing.
I felt that was rude and demeaning to the artists and colleagues I know who are serious composers and musicians.
Very often when people are asked to do something for free, there is an offer of credit, a copy of the finished project for resume and experience-building, or some kind of payment should the film fly.
No compensation of any kind was included in the post. Evie
From: Robert Hawkes <rhhawkes at gmail.com>
To: David Seth <magicdsm at gmail.com>
Cc: neohiopal at neohiopal.org
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 10:08:12 AM
Subject: Re: [NEohioPAL] scoring person needed - Hunh?
Why is so much of this conversation about copyright? The original post [need person to score a movie by april 6th. unpaid. 3 main themes and 2 variations combining 2 themes. i am just the messenger so send me your info and i will pass it on to the director. thank you!] says nothing about stealing anybody else's stuff.
I repeat:
Two issues here:
1. The job description is over-optimistic, unrealistic,and apparently heedless of the compositional difficulties involved. It is indeed a huge job to ask somebody to do for no pay. Presumably the producer has no choice in the matter.
2. Working for no pay: One might do it as a labor of love, if one were intimately associated with the project. One might do it because the work represents some sort of opportunity for exposure,"foot in the door", etc. And etc. It is not an entirely outrageous idea. And certainly not worth any tax on my blood pressure.
best to all
Hawkes
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 9:58 AM, David Seth <magicdsm at gmail.com> wrote:
To add to Richard's underlying post (at the bottom of this email), when he and I used "The Doll Song" from Offenbach's "Tales of Hoffmann" last year, I first made sure that it was out of copyright and then input the score and generated sound files so that no recording copyrights would be violated.
I also recently responded to a NEOhioPAL post requesting a copy of music from Les Miz with URLs of where to buy or lease the music.
What I see from the post that prompted this thread is a dichotomy between one's proprietary interest in one's own work, and a complete neglect of sharing that respect for the work of others. Piracy on the high seas is still frowned upon, but piracy in the music world is business-as-usual.
Freedom of information does not mean freedom to profit from something belonging to someone else. There's a fascinating/frustrating article in a recent issue of The Dramatist by Jason Robert Brown addressing this very issue.
Cheers,
Deb Magid
On Mar 9, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Robert Hawkes wrote:
Two issues here:
1. The job description is over-optimistic, unrealistic,and apparently heedless of the difficulties involved. It is indeed a huge job to ask somebody to do for no pay. Presumably the producer has no choice in the matter.
2. Working for no pay: One might do it as a labor of love, if one were intimately associated with the project. One might do it because the work represents some sort of opportunity for exposure,"foot in the door", etc. It is not an entirely outrageous idea. And certainly not worth any tax on my blood pressure.
best to all
Hawkes
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Barbara Barrett <barbara.iyalode at gmail.com> wrote:
Wow. I absolutely NEVER jump into these conversations, but this one... Is this for real, seriously? I'm not sure that I'd have even been cool with being the messenger on this one. I understand people needing help on projects. I've given generous assistance, and been given generous assistance over the years, and I'm sure that will continue. I've had to do without personally, or postpone stuff so that I could pay up. I've also bartered. Sometimes it was WELL worth it, sometimes not so much so. But my goodness, I sing and write songs, charts, etc, and my parents paid good money for me to get a degree in music. Besides my time, effort, and creative/emotional output. I agree with Evie. What makes people think it's OK to just ask folks to do MAJOR WORK on short (RIDICULOUSLY SHORT) notice, for free, right off the top of the conversation? There must be a missing piece here... Surely the person who sent the messenger out, must not have given the messenger complete information to relay... or else this is SPAM.
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Richard B. Ingraham <rbingraham at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Just a note here:
Just because the composer is deceased doesn’t mean that use of a particular recording by that composer is not protected by copyright. The rights to the recording are completely separate from the rights to the composition. So while it’s perfectly legal for me to record my own version of a Bach composition and use it in a show, film, etc., without paying any royalties, it is not legal for me to take a recording of the Cleveland Orchestra performing that same composition and use it without their permission, which typically of course would not be free to obtain.
Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
www.rbicompaudio.20m.com
From: neohiopal-bounces at lists.neohiopal.org [mailto:neohiopal-bounces at lists.neohiopal.org] On Behalf Of Evie Morris
Sent: March 08, 2011 11:29 PM
To: makers74 at gmail.com
Cc: neohiopal at neohiopal.org
Subject: Re: [NEohioPAL] scoring person needed
Scoring person? Of course you meant to say composer or at the very least, musician.
Score a movie in less than a month? Sure, that requires no skill at all. I know a guy who drives the University Circle bus.
He can probably do it for you on his lunch break.
Unpaid? This same issue has come up for actors in our theater community.Why would anyone who has spent time and money, usually for many years, to receive training to do something like " SCORE A MOVIE " expect any kind of compensation for the time and effort they put in to sync a movie with music that connects emotionally and artistically to what is up on the screen?
Maybe you can download some Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber. Oops, wrong, you'd have to pay the artists for their work.
You could visit your local library They've got loads of CD's by dead composers and one-hit wonders.
If one doesn't have the respect and perspective to offer compensation, even if it be post- production with barter, in kind, or real dollars, why would anyone who has the ability, experience, and talent to score your movie do it for nothing?
Evie Morris
From: mike akers <makers74 at gmail.com>
To: neohiopal at neohiopal.org
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 6:31:27 PM
Subject: [NEohioPAL] scoring person needed
need person to score a movie by april 6th. unpaid. 3 main themes and 2 variations combining 2 themes. i am just the messenger so send me your info and i will pass it on to the director. thank you! makers74 at gmail.com
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cmractor at gmail.com
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