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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don't get me wrong, I've been shooting in Northeast
Ohio for over 30 years and I have always fought for my models. I have always
done what's best for my models. In the early 80's when there were so many
modeling schools accepting anyone who could afford the classes, and then
leaving them out in the cold with their portfolios and nothing else, I
started my own modeling agency and taught modeling for free. Of course we only
accepted people with real modeling potential.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've also done hundreds, probably thousands of free
shoots for models. And models have done the same for me, because they know I
will go out on a limb for them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've fought with clients for bigger budgets like
everybody else. I've gotten some big fees for models, too. I'm just saying that
there are clients who know how to take advantage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If I could fill my date book with catalog work in
Chicago and New York, I probably would. Reality is, I need filler work like
everybody else, and I need the smaller jobs. I bid on jobs, fight for jobs, ask
models to compromise (sometimes), and fight for what I get. Then I remember who
my friends are. I have always remembered my models (and make-up artists and
stylists, etc) who have worked for less-than industry standard. Then when I get
a project with a nice, fat budget (there are still some), I bring in those
friends to share the bounty.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for the soap box!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>bb</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>____________________<BR>Bill
Brucken<BR>BruckenStudio.com<BR><A
href="mailto:BB@BruckenStudio.com">BB@BruckenStudio.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.BruckenStudio.com">www.BruckenStudio.com</A></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bjbowers4584@yahoo.com href="mailto:bjbowers4584@yahoo.com">Brian
Bowers</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=info@centralproducts.net
href="mailto:info@centralproducts.net">Central Products Info</A> ; <A
title=mabenator@gmail.com href="mailto:mabenator@gmail.com">Marie Bohusch</A>
; <A title=neohiopal@listserve.com
href="mailto:neohiopal@listserve.com">neohiopal@listserve.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 18, 2008 9:48
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NEohioPAL] Female Model
Needed Immediately for Life DrawingClass at Beck Center</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The economy in Cleveland is bad, but not that bad. As the print agent for
the Talent Group in Cleveland (<A
href="http://www.talentgroup.com">www.talentgroup.com</A>) I once got a model
$1,250.00 and HOUR, with a 4 hour minimum to bare her breasts for a photo
shoot. That comes to $5,000 for up to a 4 hour shoot, plus a 20% agency fee.
So there is money out there, and there's definitely opportunities for models
to make money, even in Cleveland. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now, I will say that what Bill is saying below is a common story that I
hear among some of the photographers we work with. So in defense of what Bill
is saying here, I think the bigger problem is often not with the photographers
or production companies who are shooting the project and hiring the models,
but with the major corporations who suck the life out of the artistic
community by crying poor when it comes to paying talent, paying the creatives,
etc., so they are able to suck up an even bigger profit. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, while I agree that the rate for the life models for the Beck Center
class that originally started this current argument is far too low, I will
again point out that there is a big difference between a big advertising piece
where some company is making hand over fist versus a class that's purely for
educational value. Consequentially, I think lower rates for something like the
life drawing class are more acceptable than the $25 to $50 an hour quoted
below for catalogue work and print ads. Personally I would never take off my
clothes for $11/hr (you'd have to at least buy me dinner first), but I think
some of the attacks on Beck are a little harsh just considering that they are
part of the same artistic community that we all are.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For someone interested in getting started in modeling, I would say it's
almost always a safer bet to sign with a reputable agency. Besides the Talent
Group, there are several others in the area. As an agent, I would personally
pass on any print job that was paying $25 to $50 an hour for adults. While I
realize that many people (including myself) would love to take a gig that pays
$50 an hour, I do stand by the fact that this is below the current industry
standard (for the most part, my adults models make $150/hr), and I strongly
believe that the more we give in and take lower paying jobs, the more this
empowers the major corporations that are the end clients to cut budgets even
more. You have to remember--even though this is an artistic venture for us, in
the end it all comes down to profits. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best wishes and good luck to all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Brian Bowers</DIV>
<DIV>The Talent Group</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.talentgroup.com">www.talentgroup.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Central Products Info
<info@centralproducts.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Unfortunately,
because of the economy in Northeast Ohio, models can be hired <BR>for much
less than they make in cities like Chicago or even Pittsburgh. As a
<BR>commercial photographer, I hire models for print projects usually in the
$25 <BR>to $50 per hour range. That's for models with little experience or
with a <BR>lot of experience, and it doesn't matter if it's a lingerie,
partial nude or <BR>nude shoot.<BR><BR>Before you blast me with evil emails,
it's not my fault. The clients don't <BR>give us big budgets because they
know we can hire models here for less. And <BR>they pay me less, too. I take
more projects in Chicago than Cleveland for <BR>that reason. Why should I
work for $50 per hour here when I can make $125 to <BR>$200 per hour in
Chicago? And my models make $75 to $125 per hour in <BR>Chicago.<BR><BR>But
tell me the truth, who will turn down a modeling job for $25 to $50 an
<BR>hour in Cleveland unless you're traveling to Chicago or New York for
bigger <BR>bucks? You can't make $50 per hour working at the mall!<BR><BR>I
know I'll be flooded with emails from models who want print jobs, and
<BR>that's okay. I have a number of local jobs I can hire for. I also have
<BR>catalog jobs in Chicago I can bring models to that pay more. We all take
<BR>what we can get.<BR><BR>I've been doing this for over 30 years. I'd
gladly do most of my work here <BR>in Cleveland, but, like the models, I
can't afford to. We either work second <BR>jobs, or travel to better-paying
cities.<BR><BR>I still do work here because the rent's cheaper, the cost of
living is <BR>cheaper, I get a lot of "filler" jobs, and I have a lifetime
of contacts. <BR>I'd rather keep my home base here (near all our family,too)
and travel, than <BR>move.<BR>____________________<BR>Bill
Brucken<BR>BruckenStudio.com<BR>BB@BruckenStudio.com<BR>www.BruckenStudio.com<BR><BR>-----
Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Marie Bohusch"
<MABENATOR@GMAIL.COM><BR>To: <NEOHIOPAL@LISTSERVE.COM><BR>Sent: Thursday,
January 17, 2008 8:58 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [NEohioPAL] Female Model Needed
Immediately for Life <BR>DrawingClass at Beck Center<BR><BR><BR>>
Unfortunately, many university/college student artists models don't<BR>>
realize the art dept is paying them is bird feed. The impossibly low<BR>>
pay goes for just about ANY university "student" position. Last time<BR>>
I stopped by the financial aid office at Kent State in 2005, I saw a<BR>>
KSU job posting looking for students-only with "intermediate<BR>>
experience in UNIX based MySQL/PHP programming" - $6.50/hr. I nearly<BR>>
died laughing! When I checked with KSU's art dept in 2003, they were<BR>>
paying artists models $10/hr. Bird feed! While a computer programmer<BR>>
will usually "know better", artists models who START in Uni/College<BR>>
art dept's often have no idea that they were being dramatically<BR>>
underpaid, and happily leap at any other work that pays the same or<BR>>
just a little better.<BR>><BR>> Any sort of work that is so physically
demanding that a person<BR>> couldn't do it for 40hrs/wk (I certainly
could never pose that many<BR>> hours in any one week!), they need to
rethink how much their actual<BR>> WORKING hours (plus any needed
recovery time) are REALLY worth. The<BR>> more statuesque a model is --
no flinching, drooping, change of face,<BR>> nothing -- the more they are
likely to "feel it" the next day. That's<BR>> recovery time, and yes -
the pantry, landlord and electric company<BR>> would very much appreciate
it if a model calculates the value of the<BR>> time they can't work as a
direct result of work ALREADY DONE.<BR>><BR>> Just something to think
about.<BR>><BR>> ~marie<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> 2008/1/17 Star
Day <STAROFTHEDAY1@YAHOO.COM>:<BR>>><BR>>> I don't know if you
all are aware but industry standard for "Nude<BR>>> Modeling/Nude
Figure Models" begins at $100 - $125 per hour. A newer <BR>>>
model,<BR>>> you may be able to hire for $75 per hour because they are
not an <BR>>> established<BR>>> model. Offering $11 per hour is
disturbing.<BR>>><BR>>> Sorry, I just had to point that out.
Many models are exploited or paid <BR>>> well<BR>>> below the
indutry standard here in CLeveland and it's simply
disturbing.<BR>>><BR>>> Kaye<BR>>>
myspace.com/kristal13<BR>>><BR>>
______________________________________<BR>> Dear
Subscribers,<BR>><BR>> (This footer will only be active until February
1, 2008. Once a year I <BR>> send out the message below.)<BR>><BR>>
NEohioPAL is now in it's tenth year of providing service to the Performing
<BR>> Arts Community.<BR>><BR>> Throughout it's history it has been
free to all subscribers and posters <BR>> and will remain
free.<BR>><BR>> Last year at this time I sent out a request for
voluntary financial <BR>> support and some of you responded with great
generosity. Thanks once <BR>> again to those who supported NEohioPAL in
2007!! You can check out this <BR>> link to see the list of supporters:
<BR>>
http://www.fredsternfeld.com/neohiopalsupporters.htm<BR>><BR>> There
are many costs to run this list: hosting fees, software, equipment <BR>>
and time. Expenses have gone up considerably as the fees from the new
<BR>> hosting service (listserve.com) are four times more per year than
the <BR>> previous service (hostway.com).<BR>><BR>> Once again this
year, I am asking you to consider giving voluntary <BR>> financial
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give, please consider these <BR>> questions...<BR>><BR>> What has
been the value of NEohioPAL to your organization or career?<BR>> Has it
saved you money?<BR>> Helped you get a job?<BR>> Assisted in promoting
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send a check made out to NEohioPAL, Ltd. to:<BR>><BR>> NEohioPAL,
Ltd.<BR>> c/o Fred Sternfeld<BR>> 24021 Halburton Rd.<BR>>
Beachwood, Ohio 44122<BR>><BR>> Thanks for your participation in
making the arts scene in the Northeast <BR>> Ohio region vibrant and
collaborative.<BR>><BR>> Warm Regards,<BR>><BR>> Fred
Sternfeld<BR>> NEohioPAL founder and administrator<BR>>
______________________________________<BR>> NEohioPAL is SELF-SERVE. If
you need to unsubscribe, change from digest to <BR>> one-at-a-time
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mime to plain text or vice-versa, etc. check out the FAQS at <BR>>
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______________________________________<BR>> Disclaimer: The facts and/or
opinions expressed in this message are solely <BR>> those of the person
in the 'from' or 'reply-to' header. The fact that this <BR>> message is
posted should in no way be taken as an endorsement by the <BR>>
administrator of this list. Subscribers should perform due diligence for
<BR>> all goods, services and activities promoted on NEohioPAL.<BR>>
_____________________________________<BR>> NEohioPAL mailing list<BR>>
http://mailman.listserve.com/listmanager/listinfo/neohiopal<BR>>
<BR><BR>______________________________________<BR>Dear
Subscribers,<BR><BR>(This footer will only be active until February 1, 2008.
Once a year I send out the message below.)<BR><BR>NEohioPAL is now in it's
tenth year of providing service to the Performing Arts Community.
<BR><BR>Throughout it's history it has been free to all subscribers and
posters and will remain free. <BR><BR>Last year at this time I sent out a
request for voluntary financial support and some of you responded with great
generosity. Thanks once again to those who supported NEohioPAL in 2007!! You
can check out this link to see the list of supporters:
http://www.fredsternfeld.com/neohiopalsupporters.htm<BR><BR>There are many
costs to run this list: hosting fees, software, equipment and time. Expenses
have gone up considerably as the fees from the new hosting service
(listserve.com) are four times more per year than the previous service
(hostway.com). <BR><BR>Once again this year, I am asking you to consider
giving voluntary financial support to NEohioPAL. <BR><BR>As you are deciding
whether or not to give, please consider these questions... <BR><BR>What has
been the value of NEohioPAL to your organization or career? <BR>Has it saved
you money? <BR>Helped you get a job? <BR>Assisted in promoting your event,
auditions, classes or camps? <BR>Kept you informed about happenings around
town? <BR>Assisted in selling a personal item?<BR><BR>If it is within your
means and you choose to provide voluntary financial support - please to the
paypal link here: http://www.fredsternfeld.com/faqs.htm#support<BR><BR>OR
send a check made out to NEohioPAL, Ltd. to:<BR><BR>NEohioPAL, Ltd.<BR>c/o
Fred Sternfeld<BR>24021 Halburton Rd.<BR>Beachwood, Ohio 44122<BR><BR>Thanks
for your participation in making the arts scene in the Northeast Ohio region
vibrant and collaborative.<BR><BR>Warm Regards,<BR><BR>Fred
Sternfeld<BR>NEohioPAL founder and
administrator<BR>______________________________________<BR>NEohioPAL is
SELF-SERVE. If you need to unsubscribe, change from digest to one-at-a-time
delivery or vice-versa, go on hiatus while out of town, switch from mime to
plain text or vice-versa, etc. check out the FAQS at
http://www.fredsternfeld.com.<BR>______________________________________<BR>Disclaimer:
The facts and/or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the
person in the 'from' or 'reply-to' header. The fact that this message is
posted should in no way be taken as an endorsement by the administrator of
this list. Subscribers should perform due diligence for all goods, services
and activities promoted on
NEohioPAL.<BR>_____________________________________<BR>NEohioPAL mailing
list<BR>http://mailman.listserve.com/listmanager/listinfo/neohiopal<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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