[NEohioPAL]Got Pay Meeting-Another opinion

Thu Mar 24 06:42:18 PST 2005

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Well, I'm going to chime in. 

At issue is the difference between being asked to provide your talent for
the profit and benefit for another without compensation  -- AND -- being
asked to participate in a project where everyone benefits - pay or no pay.  

To work for nothing, to receive nothing when the producer alone profits,
that is theft and exploitation.

At the same time, I might suggest that intention is everything.  Benefits
come in many shapes and sizes.  Even Actor's Equity Association provides the
'members project code' to give union actors an opportunity to work with
colleagues without benefit of a contract - even the union recognizes the
need for artistic exploration, growth, and a forum to showcase our talents.

We have to first assess the value of the project and the integrity of the
producer.  I would never wish to see Independent film makers or directors or
actors or other theatre artists be discouraged from their own 'projects'
simply on the basis of insufficient funds.  Good god!  If many of us had
followed that philosophy, the theatre movement in Cleveland would be nearly
nonexistent.  In New York, the Group Theatre would never have been formed.
Clifford Odets would never have been produced. Lee Strasberg, Uta Hagen,
Stella Adler would never have had the laboratory in which to develop their
theories of acting and influence several generations of theatre artists.
They lived on peanut butter and sweat for many years.

The course of a acting career "never did run smooth.".  When we work, we
work.  Our value is in the doing.  The growth is in the discipline and
commitment to the project. The value of the project should be the first
consideration..  If we are asked to work for no salary, then we should ask:
if I don't get the cash, will there be payback anyway?  Will I grow? Will I
be challenged?  Will I feel proud of the labor?   

I've never met an actor yet, myself included, with professional expectations
that didn't need to work out, sometimes in a seedy little gym, for no pay,
to have any hope of becoming the million dollar baby.  

And, I might suggest, the responsibility is ours.  I try to work for what I
value - on all levels, including knowledge, experience, challenge, AND, when
appropriate, financial remuneration.  I've never been mugged.

Tom Fulton

  _____  

From: neohiopal-admin at lists.fredsternfeld.com
[mailto:neohiopal-admin at lists.fredsternfeld.com] On Behalf Of
TALENTnet1 at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:23 AM
To: neohiopal at lists.fredsternfeld.com
Subject: [NEohioPAL]Got Pay Meeting-Another opinion

To all Neohiopalers who attended Monday's "Got Pay" Meeting:

At the beginning, I sat in silence...just watching and listening, nodding my
head in agreement, "We're meeting to inform and educate....." Later I sat in
disbelief, shaking my head at what I was hearing.  When I was finally ready
to raise my hand and offer an opposing opinion, I watched honest independent
filmmakers get attacked for presenting their side of this issue.  I watched
as people walked out.  After the meeting, I listened to several who had also
remained silent, also apprehensive of speaking out.  

Now, with time to formulate my thoughts more articulately, I feel the need
to speak out.  I need to share that the individual opinions of some union
members did NOT represent the opinions of ALL union members....certainly not
the opinions of THIS union member.  

Yes, all actors have worth...I totally agree.  Whether union or nonunion,
all actors have worth.  No doubt about it.  I heartily concur, that if asked
to do a commercial, industrial or training film, or ANY gig where the client
will be generating income as a result, ALL actors, crew, editors, writers,
etc., should be paid fairly for their services....Absolutely NO argument
here!  In fact, in my opinion, on ANY project where SOME are being paid, ALL
should be paid.  No one skill is more important than any other on any
project.  

That, unfortunately, is where I parted company with the attitudes and
comments expressed at Monday's "Got Pay" meeting.  Telling newcomers to
negotiate union wages or "walk away" from the job is ridiculous.  Telling
independent film makers with no financial backing to put actor's salaries on
their charge cards is ludicrous.  Telling actors to not act unless they get
paid is just plain foolish.  

I am a 15 year member of AFTRA, and ready to join SAG upon my next SAG film.
I worked for many years on nonunion commercials, first free, then often
working for $50-$150 dollars for unlimited usage.  For all I know, some of
them are still running in Chicago...and quite frankly, I don't care. 

I worked for many years as an extra on over a dozen major films at a rate of
$50 per 12 hour day.  With every job, I gained experience, confidence,
business contacts, and friends.  I honed my craft and built my resume, line
by line.  I trained at Second City, wrote my own show, THE SIX AGES OF
WOMAN, and put it on the market.  (and yes, I reduce my rates and do
occasional free-bees when Spirit moves me to do so).  When my confidence,
skill level, and resume were solid, I joined AFTRA.  I have an agent.  I
earn union scale.  I don't "scab," and I have turned down suggestions to go
"financial core," (yet I do NOT judge or shun those who choose to make a
personal decision to do so).

But, listening to this meeting, I just kept shaking my head.  What gives
ANYONE the right to judge others?  What gives ANYONE the right to shame,
demean, or subtly threaten Email attacks to those who wish to offer no-pay
gigs...or those who choose to accept such "opportunities" to work for
free...for the reel, or experience or "fun of it?"  What right does ANYONE
have to tell others they "shouldn't" work free or cheap, when MANY of us
veteran actors got our starts that way?  Who has the right to tell others
how to live their lives?  It is not up to ANY of us to tell others what to
charge or which work to accept.  It is not our place to shame, attack or
intimidate others who follow their hearts to do what is individually right
for them.  It smacks of the American Auto worker who "keys" the foreign car
in the parking lot.  

Until I am a full SAG member, I will continue to audition and participate in
no-pay or deferred pay independent films. I have personally had nothing but
pleasant experiences on such projects.  I do so because I love the film
industry and I love film acting.  I do so because in my heart I KNOW it will
lead me to bigger and better things. Acting is my calling, my passion, my
pleasure.  I do so because I want to help film makers produce high quality
projects, and I am a high quality actor.  I believe my independent film
experience was what gave me the confidence and skill to win my SAG role in
AMERICAN SPLENDOR.  

Don't get me wrong.  Money is good.  Money is nice.  I need money like
everyone else.  But everything I do is NOT about money.  I always have and
always will do what is right in MY heart to do, regardless of the opinions
of others. I felt sad to see talented, good hearted, well intentioned people
intimidated and shamed at this meeting.  I felt sad to see my union give the
appearance of being controlling, greedy and angry.

I totally agree with the motto expressed last night...
       "IF MONEY GETS MADE, THE TALENT GETS PAID."  
I personally would not do a commercial for no pay.  In my opinion, neither
should anyone.  But if you are a nonunion talent and feel led to say yes for
whatever your reason, follow your gut and your heart and do what is right
for you.  

I have done professional theater for non-equity pay.  And I have done good
quality community/semiprofessional theater for a stipend that didn't cover
my gas costs.  My latest theater experience was performing in Fred
Sternfeld's Ragtime.  Did I get paid?  You bet I did.  Besides the small
stipend, I got paid in ways that money can't buy.  I got paid with the pride
of being an important part of a theatrical experience I will remember for
the rest of my life.  I got paid by making some true close, intimate friends
I will love until I die.  I got paid by the laughter and camaraderie at
rehearsals.  I got paid by hearing thunderous applause, and seeing standing
ovations before the curtain call even began.  Being a part of this
theatrical masterpiece not only didn't make me money, it cost me
money......and it was worth every single penny. I would do it again in a
heartbeat.

I am the Cleveland Coordinator for the Artistic Spiritual Cinema Community.
(www.SpiritualCinemaCircle.com) - A grass roots movement started by Stephen
Simon (What Dreams May Come, Somewhere in Time, Bill and Ted's Excellent
Adventure....and more) to produce quality films with a spiritual/positive
message.  Actors, producers, writers, directors, tech crew....working for NO
PAY to produce quality inspirational and life changing films.  If the films
ever make money, people will get paid. Sometimes it just has to be about
trusting each other.  Sometimes it just has to be about THE ART.

Just one woman's opinion.

Warm hugs and a double dimpled smile from
Mary Faktor (the actor)
www.FaktorsTalentNetwork.com
888-913-3473

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Well, I’m going to chime =
in… <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>At issue is the difference between =
being
asked to provide your talent for the profit and benefit for another =
without
compensation  -- AND -- being asked to participate in a project =
where
everyone benefits – pay or no pay.  =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>To work for nothing, to receive =
nothing
when the producer alone <i><span =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>profits</span></i>, that
is theft and exploitation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>At the same time, I might suggest =
that <i><span
style=3D'font-style:italic'>intention</span></i> is everything.  =
Benefits
come in many shapes and sizes.  Even Actor’s Equity =
Association provides
the ‘<i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'>members project =
code’</span></i>
to give union actors an opportunity to work with colleagues without =
benefit of
a contract – even the union recognizes the need for artistic =
exploration,
growth, and a forum to showcase our talents.  <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

We have to first assess the value =
of the
project and the integrity of the producer.  I would never wish to =
see Independent
film makers or directors or actors or other theatre artists be =
discouraged from
their own ‘projects’ simply on the basis of insufficient
funds.  Good god!  If many of us had followed that philosophy, =
the
theatre movement in <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Cleveland</st1:place></st1:City>
would be nearly nonexistent.  In <st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">New
 York</st1:place></st1:State>, the Group Theatre would never have been
formed.  Clifford Odets would never have been produced. Lee =
Strasberg, Uta
Hagen, Stella Adler would never have had the laboratory in which to =
develop
their theories of acting and influence several generations of theatre =
artists.   They
lived on peanut butter and sweat for many =
years.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

The course of a acting career =
“never
did run smooth…”.  When we work, we work.  Our =
value is
in the doing.  The growth is in the discipline and commitment to =
the
project. The value of =
the project should be the first =
consideration.. 
If we are asked to work for no salary, then we should ask:  if I =
don’t
get the cash, will there be payback anyway?  Will I grow? Will I be
challenged?  Will I feel proud of the labor? =
  <o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’ve never met an actor yet, =
myself
included, with professional expectations that didn’t need to work =
out, sometimes
in a seedy little gym, for no pay, to have any hope of becoming the =
million dollar
baby…  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And, I might suggest, the =
responsibility
is ours.  I try to work for what I value – on all levels, =
including knowledge,
experience, challenge, AND, when appropriate, financial =
remuneration.  I’ve
never been mugged.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tom =
Fulton<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
neohiopal-admin at lists.fredsternfeld.com
[mailto:neohiopal-admin at lists.fredsternfeld.com] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>TALENTnet1 at aol.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 24, =
2005
1:23 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
neohiopal at lists.fredsternfeld.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NEohioPAL]Got =
Pay
Meeting-Another opinion</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dpurple face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:purple'><br>
</span></font><font color=3Dpurple face=3D"Comic Sans MS" PTSIZE=3D12 =
FAMILY=3DSCRIPT><span
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:purple'>To all Neohiopalers =
who
attended Monday's "Got Pay" Meeting:<br>
<br>
At the beginning, I sat in silence...just watching and listening, =
nodding my
head in agreement, "We're meeting to inform and educate....." =
Later I
sat in disbelief, shaking my head at what I was hearing.  When I =
was
finally ready to raise my hand and offer an opposing opinion, I watched =
honest
independent filmmakers get attacked for presenting their side of this
issue.  I watched as people walked out.  After the meeting, I
listened to several who had also remained silent, also apprehensive of =
speaking
out.  <br>
<br>
Now, with time to formulate my thoughts more articulately, I feel the =
need to
speak out.  I need to share that the individual opinions of some =
union
members did NOT represent the opinions of ALL union members....certainly =
not
the opinions of THIS union member.  <br>
<br>
Yes, all actors have worth...I totally agree.  Whether union or =
nonunion,
all actors have worth.  No doubt about it.  I heartily concur, =
that
if asked to do a commercial, industrial or training film, or <i><u><span
style=3D'font-style:italic'>ANY </span></u></i>gig where the client will =
be
generating income as a result, <u>ALL</u> actors, crew, editors, =
writers, etc.,
should be paid fairly for their services....Absolutely NO argument =
here! 
In fact, in my opinion, on <i><u><span =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>ANY</span></u></i><u>
</u>project where SOME are being paid, <u>ALL</u> should be paid.  =
No one
skill is more important than any other on any project.  <br>
<br>
That, unfortunately, is where I parted company with the attitudes and =
comments
expressed at Monday's "Got Pay" meeting.  Telling =
newcomers to
negotiate union wages or "walk away" from the job is
ridiculous.  Telling independent film makers with no financial =
backing to
put actor's salaries on their charge cards is ludicrous.  Telling =
actors
to not act unless they get paid is just plain foolish.  <br>
<br>
I am a 15 year member of AFTRA, and ready to join SAG upon my next SAG
film.  I worked for many years on nonunion commercials, first free, =
then
often working for $50-$150 dollars for unlimited usage.  For all I =
know,
some of them are still running in <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Chicago</st1:place></st1:City>...and
quite frankly, I don't care. <br>
<br>
I worked for many years as an extra on over a dozen major films at a =
rate of
$50 per 12 hour day.  With every job, I gained experience, =
confidence,
business contacts, and friends.  I honed my craft and built my =
resume,
line by line.  I trained at <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Second</st1:PlaceName>
 <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">City</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, wrote my =
own show,
THE SIX AGES OF WOMAN, and put it on the market.  (and yes, I =
reduce my
rates and do occasional free-bees when Spirit moves me to do so).  =
When my
confidence, skill level, and resume were solid, I joined AFTRA.  I =
have an
agent.  I earn union scale.  I don't "scab," and I =
have
turned down suggestions to go "financial core," (yet I do NOT =
judge
or shun those who choose to make a personal decision to do so).<br>
<br>
But, listening to this meeting, I just kept shaking my head.  What =
gives
ANYONE the right to judge others?  What gives ANYONE the right to =
shame,
demean, or subtly threaten Email attacks to those who wish to offer =
no-pay
gigs...or those who choose to accept such "opportunities" to =
work for
free...for the reel, or experience or "fun of it?"  What =
right
does ANYONE have to tell others they "shouldn't" work free or =
cheap,
when MANY of us veteran actors got our starts that way?  Who has =
the right
to tell others how to live their lives?  It is not up to ANY of us =
to tell
others what to charge or which work to accept.  It is not our place =
to
shame, attack or intimidate others who follow their hearts to do what is
individually right for them.  It smacks of the American Auto worker =
who
"keys" the foreign car in the parking lot.  <br>
<br>
Until I am a full SAG member, I will continue to audition and =
participate in
no-pay or deferred pay independent films. I have personally had nothing =
but
pleasant experiences on such projects.  I do so because I love the =
film
industry and I love film acting.  I do so because in my heart I =
KNOW it
will lead me to bigger and better things. Acting is my calling, my =
passion, my
pleasure.  I do so because I want to help film makers produce high =
quality
projects, and I am a high quality actor.  I believe my independent =
film
experience was what gave me the confidence and skill to win my SAG role =
in
AMERICAN SPLENDOR.  <br>
<br>
Don't get me wrong.  Money is good.  Money is nice.  I =
need
money like everyone else.  But everything I do is NOT about =
money.  I
always have and always will do what is right in MY heart to do, =
regardless of
the opinions of others. I felt sad to see talented, good hearted, well
intentioned people intimidated and shamed at this meeting.  I felt =
sad to
see my union give the appearance of being controlling, greedy and =
angry.<br>
<br>
I totally agree with the motto expressed last night...<br>
       "IF MONEY GETS MADE, THE =
TALENT GETS
PAID."  <br>
I personally would not do a commercial for no pay.  In my opinion, =
neither
should anyone.  But if you are a nonunion talent and feel led to =
say yes
for whatever your reason, follow your gut and your heart and do what is =
right
for you.  <br>
<br>
I have done professional theater for non-equity pay.  And I have =
done good
quality community/semiprofessional theater for a stipend that didn't =
cover my
gas costs.  My latest theater experience was performing in =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Fred Sternfeld</st1:PersonName>'s Ragtime.  Did I get
paid?  You bet I did.  Besides the small stipend, I got paid =
in ways
that money can't buy.  I got paid with the pride of being an =
important
part of a theatrical experience I will remember for the rest of my =
life. 
I got paid by making some true close, intimate friends I will love until =
I
die.  I got paid by the laughter and camaraderie at =
rehearsals.  I
got paid by hearing thunderous applause, and seeing standing ovations =
before
the curtain call even began.  Being a part of this theatrical =
masterpiece
not only didn't make me money, it cost me money......and it was worth =
every
single penny. I would do it again in a heartbeat.<br>
<br>
I am the <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Cleveland</st1:place></st1:City>
Coordinator for the Artistic Spiritual Cinema Community.  =
(www.SpiritualCinemaCircle.com)
- A grass roots movement started by Stephen Simon (What Dreams May Come,
Somewhere in Time, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure....and more) to =
produce
quality films with a spiritual/positive message.  Actors, =
producers, writers,
directors, tech crew....working for NO PAY to produce quality =
inspirational and
life changing films.  If the films ever make money, people will get =
paid.
Sometimes it just has to be about trusting each other.  Sometimes =
it just
has to be about THE ART.<br>
<br>
Just one woman's opinion.<br>
<br>
Warm hugs and a double dimpled smile from<br>
Mary Faktor (the actor)<br>
www.FaktorsTalentNetwork.com<br>
888-913-3473<br>
<br>
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