[NEohioPAL] Female Model Needed Immediately for Life DrawingClass at Beck Center
Central Products Info
info at centralproducts.net
Fri Jan 18 08:00:18 PST 2008
Don't get me wrong, I've been shooting in Northeast Ohio for over 30 years and I have always fought for my models. I have always done what's best for my models. In the early 80's when there were so many modeling schools accepting anyone who could afford the classes, and then leaving them out in the cold with their portfolios and nothing else, I started my own modeling agency and taught modeling for free. Of course we only accepted people with real modeling potential.
I've also done hundreds, probably thousands of free shoots for models. And models have done the same for me, because they know I will go out on a limb for them.
I've fought with clients for bigger budgets like everybody else. I've gotten some big fees for models, too. I'm just saying that there are clients who know how to take advantage.
If I could fill my date book with catalog work in Chicago and New York, I probably would. Reality is, I need filler work like everybody else, and I need the smaller jobs. I bid on jobs, fight for jobs, ask models to compromise (sometimes), and fight for what I get. Then I remember who my friends are. I have always remembered my models (and make-up artists and stylists, etc) who have worked for less-than industry standard. Then when I get a project with a nice, fat budget (there are still some), I bring in those friends to share the bounty.
Thanks for the soap box!
bb
____________________
Bill Brucken
BruckenStudio.com
BB at BruckenStudio.com
www.BruckenStudio.com
From: Brian Bowers
To: Central Products Info ; Marie Bohusch ; neohiopal at listserve.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [NEohioPAL] Female Model Needed Immediately for Life DrawingClass at Beck Center
The economy in Cleveland is bad, but not that bad. As the print agent for the Talent Group in Cleveland (www.talentgroup.com) I once got a model $1,250.00 and HOUR, with a 4 hour minimum to bare her breasts for a photo shoot. That comes to $5,000 for up to a 4 hour shoot, plus a 20% agency fee. So there is money out there, and there's definitely opportunities for models to make money, even in Cleveland.
Now, I will say that what Bill is saying below is a common story that I hear among some of the photographers we work with. So in defense of what Bill is saying here, I think the bigger problem is often not with the photographers or production companies who are shooting the project and hiring the models, but with the major corporations who suck the life out of the artistic community by crying poor when it comes to paying talent, paying the creatives, etc., so they are able to suck up an even bigger profit.
Also, while I agree that the rate for the life models for the Beck Center class that originally started this current argument is far too low, I will again point out that there is a big difference between a big advertising piece where some company is making hand over fist versus a class that's purely for educational value. Consequentially, I think lower rates for something like the life drawing class are more acceptable than the $25 to $50 an hour quoted below for catalogue work and print ads. Personally I would never take off my clothes for $11/hr (you'd have to at least buy me dinner first), but I think some of the attacks on Beck are a little harsh just considering that they are part of the same artistic community that we all are.
For someone interested in getting started in modeling, I would say it's almost always a safer bet to sign with a reputable agency. Besides the Talent Group, there are several others in the area. As an agent, I would personally pass on any print job that was paying $25 to $50 an hour for adults. While I realize that many people (including myself) would love to take a gig that pays $50 an hour, I do stand by the fact that this is below the current industry standard (for the most part, my adults models make $150/hr), and I strongly believe that the more we give in and take lower paying jobs, the more this empowers the major corporations that are the end clients to cut budgets even more. You have to remember--even though this is an artistic venture for us, in the end it all comes down to profits.
Best wishes and good luck to all.
Brian Bowers
The Talent Group
www.talentgroup.com
Central Products Info <info at centralproducts.net> wrote:
Unfortunately, because of the economy in Northeast Ohio, models can be hired
for much less than they make in cities like Chicago or even Pittsburgh. As a
commercial photographer, I hire models for print projects usually in the $25
to $50 per hour range. That's for models with little experience or with a
lot of experience, and it doesn't matter if it's a lingerie, partial nude or
nude shoot.
Before you blast me with evil emails, it's not my fault. The clients don't
give us big budgets because they know we can hire models here for less. And
they pay me less, too. I take more projects in Chicago than Cleveland for
that reason. Why should I work for $50 per hour here when I can make $125 to
$200 per hour in Chicago? And my models make $75 to $125 per hour in
Chicago.
But tell me the truth, who will turn down a modeling job for $25 to $50 an
hour in Cleveland unless you're traveling to Chicago or New York for bigger
bucks? You can't make $50 per hour working at the mall!
I know I'll be flooded with emails from models who want print jobs, and
that's okay. I have a number of local jobs I can hire for. I also have
catalog jobs in Chicago I can bring models to that pay more. We all take
what we can get.
I've been doing this for over 30 years. I'd gladly do most of my work here
in Cleveland, but, like the models, I can't afford to. We either work second
jobs, or travel to better-paying cities.
I still do work here because the rent's cheaper, the cost of living is
cheaper, I get a lot of "filler" jobs, and I have a lifetime of contacts.
I'd rather keep my home base here (near all our family,too) and travel, than
move.
____________________
Bill Brucken
BruckenStudio.com
BB at BruckenStudio.com
www.BruckenStudio.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marie Bohusch"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [NEohioPAL] Female Model Needed Immediately for Life
DrawingClass at Beck Center
> Unfortunately, many university/college student artists models don't
> realize the art dept is paying them is bird feed. The impossibly low
> pay goes for just about ANY university "student" position. Last time
> I stopped by the financial aid office at Kent State in 2005, I saw a
> KSU job posting looking for students-only with "intermediate
> experience in UNIX based MySQL/PHP programming" - $6.50/hr. I nearly
> died laughing! When I checked with KSU's art dept in 2003, they were
> paying artists models $10/hr. Bird feed! While a computer programmer
> will usually "know better", artists models who START in Uni/College
> art dept's often have no idea that they were being dramatically
> underpaid, and happily leap at any other work that pays the same or
> just a little better.
>
> Any sort of work that is so physically demanding that a person
> couldn't do it for 40hrs/wk (I certainly could never pose that many
> hours in any one week!), they need to rethink how much their actual
> WORKING hours (plus any needed recovery time) are REALLY worth. The
> more statuesque a model is -- no flinching, drooping, change of face,
> nothing -- the more they are likely to "feel it" the next day. That's
> recovery time, and yes - the pantry, landlord and electric company
> would very much appreciate it if a model calculates the value of the
> time they can't work as a direct result of work ALREADY DONE.
>
> Just something to think about.
>
> ~marie
>
>
>
> 2008/1/17 Star Day :
>>
>> I don't know if you all are aware but industry standard for "Nude
>> Modeling/Nude Figure Models" begins at $100 - $125 per hour. A newer
>> model,
>> you may be able to hire for $75 per hour because they are not an
>> established
>> model. Offering $11 per hour is disturbing.
>>
>> Sorry, I just had to point that out. Many models are exploited or paid
>> well
>> below the indutry standard here in CLeveland and it's simply disturbing.
>>
>> Kaye
>> myspace.com/kristal13
>>
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Dear Subscribers,
(This footer will only be active until February 1, 2008. Once a year I send out the message below.)
NEohioPAL is now in it's tenth year of providing service to the Performing Arts Community.
Throughout it's history it has been free to all subscribers and posters and will remain free.
Last year at this time I sent out a request for voluntary financial support and some of you responded with great generosity. Thanks once again to those who supported NEohioPAL in 2007!! You can check out this link to see the list of supporters: http://www.fredsternfeld.com/neohiopalsupporters.htm
There are many costs to run this list: hosting fees, software, equipment and time. Expenses have gone up considerably as the fees from the new hosting service (listserve.com) are four times more per year than the previous service (hostway.com).
Once again this year, I am asking you to consider giving voluntary financial support to NEohioPAL.
As you are deciding whether or not to give, please consider these questions...
What has been the value of NEohioPAL to your organization or career?
Has it saved you money?
Helped you get a job?
Assisted in promoting your event, auditions, classes or camps?
Kept you informed about happenings around town?
Assisted in selling a personal item?
If it is within your means and you choose to provide voluntary financial support - please to the paypal link here: http://www.fredsternfeld.com/faqs.htm#support
OR send a check made out to NEohioPAL, Ltd. to:
NEohioPAL, Ltd.
c/o Fred Sternfeld
24021 Halburton Rd.
Beachwood, Ohio 44122
Thanks for your participation in making the arts scene in the Northeast Ohio region vibrant and collaborative.
Warm Regards,
Fred Sternfeld
NEohioPAL founder and administrator
______________________________________
NEohioPAL is SELF-SERVE. If you need to unsubscribe, change from digest to one-at-a-time delivery or vice-versa, go on hiatus while out of town, switch from mime to plain text or vice-versa, etc. check out the FAQS at http://www.fredsternfeld.com.
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Disclaimer: The facts and/or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the person in the 'from' or 'reply-to' header. The fact that this message is posted should in no way be taken as an endorsement by the administrator of this list. Subscribers should perform due diligence for all goods, services and activities promoted on NEohioPAL.
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